BTW have you read and studied, prayerfully HEBREWS 11, ROMANS 9-11 and GALATIANS in particular and then the also both Books of Hebrews and Romans?

In there you will find the fact that salvation has ALWAYS been by the promise of Messiah, since the Covenant of Redemption was established at the fall between YAHWEH and Adam and Eve and the promise of the Seed was given.

All the Hebrew OT saints where saved by grace Alone through the gift of Faith Alone which led to actions of Faith as we are called unto in the Book of James.

So the idea of the Church being superior or a complete replacement to Spiritual Israel (As opposed to National Israel), is pride and pure arrogance, as explained in the Romans especially. The Church IS Spiritual Israel; bth are the same and has never consistent of Any other Covenants; the Covenant of Grace and/or Redemption has been since the Fall the same and has operated the same and will continue to do the same. That is exactly what the LORD impressed upon JONAH who refused to be involved in spreading the Gospel to what he perceived as ungodly Gentiles in Nineveh.

We see the same truths proclaimed even in the MIDST of National Israel by the Prophets (Especially Jeremiah and Ezekiel 3; 18 and 33).

Why would they need to preach to THE ELECT or “CONVERTED”, if all you needed was to be a physical Jew or a balance of good Works?

We need to go back to the Books my friend, Covenants do not change. At least not in Scripture.
What changes is the hearts of men.

As to the HARDENING of HEARTS and the NT:
John 12:37-43
“But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, THAT THE WORD of Isaiah the prophet MIGHT BE FULFILLED, which he spoke:

“ Lord, who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?”[ Isaiah 53:1 ]

THEREFORE they COULD NOT believe, because Isaiah said again:
“ He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”[ Isaiah 6:10 ]

These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.”

It would seem that the Apostle and the Hebrew Scriptures are in DIRECT AGREEMENT and that the NT actually does not do away with the OT, but rather ESTABLISHES and FULFILLS the Hebrew Scriptures; again I encourage you to go back to the Entire Book off Scripture (As a SINGLE UNIT of many truth that stand forever) along with us.

Psalm 119:89
“[ לLAMED ] FOREVER, O LORD, Your word is settled in heaven.”

Psalm 119:160
“The ENTIRETY of Your word is truth, And EVERY ONE of Your righteous judgments endures FOREVER.”

Isaiah 40:8
“The grass withers, the flower fades, But THE WORD OF OUR GOD STANDS FOREVER.””

1 Peter 1:23
“…having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, THROUGH THE WORD OF God WHICH LIVES AND ABIDES FOREVER…”

1 Peter 1:25
“But the word of the LORD ENDURES FOREVER.” Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.”

So what does change is our hearts and the judgements of God against people take His Word seriously.
His Word, Law and Person does not, nor does the Covenant he has made; for if that be the case He is made a liar and He ceases to exist as the Perfect One True Living Triune God: YAHWEH.

I have unashamed been grafted into the Wild Olive Tree and find that the Root of David and Jesse is my Root, the Messiah and Anointed One in whom alone Salvation is given:

Isaiah 12:2
“Behold, God is my salvation,
I will trust and not be afraid;

‘ For YAH, the LORD, is my strength and song;
He also has become my salvation.’”[ Exodus 15:2 ]

Your truly,
A Spiritual Israelite from the Nineveh type of Gentiles; who has had a heart of stone removed and a heart of flesh implanted by YAHWEH: The Father, Son and Spirit, Three-in-One, everlasting God, my Rock of Ages steadfast is He who has become my salvation.

A limited response to the Judiastic view of The Hebrew Scripture’s application to the Hebrew Nation alone as an elect nation.

The Prophets & Apostles (As was the case in Jonah’s enforced preaching to Gentiles; of evil reputation at Nineveh; and as in Acts 8 with the Ethiopian etc…) and JESUS Himself confirm them as the Authority given by the Father in their evangelism on MULTIPLE Occasions and NOT ONLY to Hebrews, but also to Samaritans and all nations). Indeed ALL Scripture is given for the people of God, but also is given to unbelievers to effect judgement. (Remembering that Scripture was confirmed by the speech of the Prophets and Apostles, such as in Acts 17). We must also remember that ALL Scripture is given to ALL Mankind, whether it was the Hebrew Scriptures or the New Testament, which finds it’s fullfillmemt in our Great High Priets and Prophet; Messiah Yeshua, whom the Hebrew Scriptures FORETOLD and the New Testament CONFIRMS, so that ALL MEN EVERYWHERE MUST REPENT and receive the gift of Faith and appply it.

Acts 17:30
“Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now COMMANDS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT…”

Romans 16:25-27
“Now to Him who is able to establish you ACCORDING TO my GOSPEL and the PREACHING OF Jesus Christ, ACCORDING TO THE REVELATION of the mystery kept secret since the world began but NOW MADE MANIFEST, and BY THE PROPHETIC SCRIPTURES MADE KNOWN TO ALL NATIONS, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, for obedience to the faith— to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.”

1 Peter 4:1-7
“Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God. For we have spent enough of our past lifetime in doing the will of the Gentiles—when we walked in lewdness, lusts, drunkenness, revelries, drinking parties, and abominable idolatries. In regard to these, they think it strange that you do not run with them in the same flood of dissipation, speaking evil of you. They will give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead. FOR THIS REASON THE GOSPEL WAS PREACHED ALSO so to those who are dead, THAT THEY MIGHT BE JUDGED according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

But the end of all things is at hand; therefore BE SERIOUS and watchful in your prayers.”

John 12:48
“He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, HAS THAT HICH JUDGES HIM—THE WORD that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.”

I am glad that you brought up that question. It is a very good question which is often ommitted today and which also is twisted to make the Hebrew Scriptures INsufficient; which is of course contrary to the Teaching of Christ and the Apostles, and indeed against the teaching of the Scriptures, which confirms the Hebrew Scriptures in the NT and which establishes the NT by way of the Hebrew Scriptures: Therefore leaving us under no illusion that ALL Scripture is equal and sufficient; even today.

Your servant with the Glorious Gospel of Messiah to All the ends of the earth, for every creature, unto the glory of God Alone,
W

Just a couple thoughts on your latest posts:

1. Consider what Paul states in Acts 20:26-27.

2. Paul uses the O.T. many times to illustrate for us how God relates with men today. Consider for example I Corinthians 10:5-6.

Probably not helpful info, but they came to mind.

God has a will. Numerous posts in these boards testify to that. But let us assume this simple thing: God, in eternity past, says to Himself – at Point A in time, I am going to do this; at Point B, I am going to do this; at Point C, I am going to do this, and; at Point D, I am going to do this. Across the span of time, we would see God changing what He was doing. At Point C in time, He is doing something different than He did at Point A. Does this “doing things differently at different points in time” mean that God is changing? I think you will agree that the answer is “no”. From our perspective, God seems to be changing. From God’s perspective, He is only carrying out the plan He made in eternity past – and He is changing nothing in His plan.

So please don’t blow off what I said in my previous post by claiming that, because God doesn’t change, the way He dealt with people in the Old Testament is still the way He deals with us today. God sticks to His plan from Eternity Past. But His plan may have changes in it that call for Him to do one thing at Point A in time and something completely different at Point C in time, etc.

Well, for starters there is Adam and Eve.

Before the fall, Adam and Eve knew God on an intimate basis – and still disobeyed Him. This happened before the Fall. Think that one through.
————

Lots of verses have been quoted above from the Old Testament in an effort to “prove” how God relates to us today. I thought God related to people in the Old Testament differently than He relates to us today. So how can you point to that behavior then and insist that it (that behavior then) is still how God is behaving today? I was particularly struck by the Old Testament admonition to share God’s truth with the sinner; if the sinner doesn’t heed the speaker’s word, he will die in his sins but his blood will not be on the hands of the one who brought him God’s truth. Contrast that with the defining statement in the New Testament that we are “saved” by coming to Christ (not God, as stated in the Old Testament), and that we won’t ever be “coming to Christ” unless God first draws us. If that is true, how can any sinner’s blood be on my hands if the sinner doesn’t turn to God? The only reason he comes to Christ is because God draws him. And if God chooses to draw him, there is no way he can resist the drawing. Nowhere in the painting of that picture in the New Testament am I or anyone else held responsible for the person not coming to Christ.

As evidenced by a host of truths that I will not elaborate on for brevity’s sake, God is working differently in the New Testament than He did in the Old Testament. He is relating to us differently in the New Testament than He related to the folks in the Old Testament. So, again, how can you point to Old Testament verses to “prove” how God relates to us today? The Old Testament verses about God hated this one and hardened the heart of that one tell us only what God did then. They tell us nothing about what God is doing now. And we live in the now. We don’t live in the then. The Old Testament folks did not have the Holy Spirit to work in their lives. We do. But consider Adam and Eve again. They walked and talked with God, and still disobeyed Him – knowing who He was face to face. We are Adam and Eve’s children. What hope do we have of behaving any better than they did, even tho we have the Holy Spirit to walk and talk with us?

Finally, some (many?) in the Jewish faith believe that the scriptures quoted above from the Old Testament were spoken to the Hebrew people (God’s chosen ones) and those scriptures apply ONLY to the Hebrew people. According to some in the Jewish faith, God required things from the Hebrew people that He did not require from everyone else. If this is true, that complicates even more the effort to quote those Old Testament verses as support for the way God relates to us non-Hebrew people now.

I note a very excellent Scripture (Also in Ezekiel – Chaters 3 and 18 being of my favourites – Ans worh considering in this context), which spurns my heart on in my evangelistic effort for our King and my love for the unregenerated:

Ezekiel 3:17-19
““Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore hear a word from My mouth, and give them warning from Me: WHEN I say to the wicked, ‘You SHALL SURELY DIE,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man SHALL DIE in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he SHALL DIE in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.”

Note here the emphatic fact stated of YAHWEH, that He actually declares Sovereignly that the type of person herewith SHALL SYRELY DIE (There is no escaping the reality here that God has set His wrath on this type of person, so as that such a person SHALL die in his sins and not be saved – By the decree of God’s own authority).

Yet note that this should spurn the watchman into a more zealous and ferverent loving proclamation of the Gospel truths – Because the LORD shall not leave them blamless who do not share the hope that is in them, they SHALL be required of the blood of those they did not WARN.

Here is the paradox of Evangelsitic Calvinism which is the Historic form of true Calvinistic theology.

As noted before a label can be helpful but it can also be very misleading when used wrongfully.

I believe this Scripture to be the most insightful and simple teaching of what we call Calvinism as it relates to salvation:

John 1:12-13
“But as many as received Him [NOTE: To receive, is to accept and apply this GIFT, as opposed to obtaining it], to them He gave [NOTE: Again this is speach relating to a GIFT, it is not by obtaining it] the right to become children of God, to those who believe [NOTE: This speaks to Responsibility] in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN [NOTE: Can it be said any PLAINER?], but of God {The GIFT Giver].

Thank you for taking up the Scriptures and for the dialogue to promote a Biblical understanding of this diificult doctrine.

I would be quite curious as to how YOU would deal with the difficult Scriptures that I have referenced ver the past few days regardig Election, Predestination and the Foreordaining mercies of YAHWEH?

I cannot recall that you deal with the difficult texts THEMSELVES.

Your servant for the Glory of our King, Master and LORD.
W

there is a task set before us to get the gospel out to the world.

At the end of the day, that’s really it. Thanks, bro.

In the case of humans, we have some capacity to choose what we will be, so God has to take that into account when choosing which of us He will use to build His Kingdom. From one perspective, it looks like we chose. From another, it looks like God chose.

Here, as in other places, I think we are too quick to jump on the dialectic bandwagon. You say: “X,” I say “Y.” You ask for clarification, and my natural tendency is to choose some point that will illustrate my difference from you. You seize on this, and choose some other point to show your difference from me. Back and forth we go, getting farther apart, intentionally, so we can prove how different we are.

It doesn’t make any sense to me.

Russ