Comments on: Clarifying Calvinism (Part 4) http://www.sfpulpit.com/2009/01/15/clarifying-calvinism-part-4/ A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:54:00 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Jon Daley http://www.sfpulpit.com/2009/01/15/clarifying-calvinism-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-284534 Jon Daley Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:01:45 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2009/01/15/clarifying-calvinism-part-4/#comment-284534 Bill Toothman - yes, exactly what I was thinking. Bill Toothman – yes, exactly what I was thinking.

]]> By: shawn http://www.sfpulpit.com/2009/01/15/clarifying-calvinism-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-284343 shawn Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:47:22 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2009/01/15/clarifying-calvinism-part-4/#comment-284343 Morris, spoken like a true Texan. ;) Morris,

spoken like a true Texan. ;)

]]> By: Morris Brooks http://www.sfpulpit.com/2009/01/15/clarifying-calvinism-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-283699 Morris Brooks Sun, 18 Jan 2009 05:17:51 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2009/01/15/clarifying-calvinism-part-4/#comment-283699 Shawn, Many of us in Texas think that the Border Patrol has been guarding the wrong river lo these many years :) Morris Shawn,

Many of us in Texas think that the Border Patrol has been guarding the wrong river lo these many years :)

Morris

]]> By: shawn http://www.sfpulpit.com/2009/01/15/clarifying-calvinism-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-283480 shawn Sat, 17 Jan 2009 15:59:52 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2009/01/15/clarifying-calvinism-part-4/#comment-283480 "One of the things that first got me thinking seriously about the sovereignty of God was an incident in a college Sunday School class, in a Southern Baptist Church, in Durant, OK..." This explains a whole lot. Living in Durant will turn anyone into a Calvinist! You have to believe that "God will work all to good", otherwise, you'll end up in deep depression, or, even worse, migrating to Texas. I'm thankful God chose to redeem you from a faulty theology before either of those things occurred... “One of the things that first got me thinking seriously about the sovereignty of God was an incident in a college Sunday School class, in a Southern Baptist Church, in Durant, OK…”

This explains a whole lot. Living in Durant will turn anyone into a Calvinist! You have to believe that “God will work all to good”, otherwise, you’ll end up in deep depression, or, even worse, migrating to Texas.

I’m thankful God chose to redeem you from a faulty theology before either of those things occurred…

]]> By: Bill Toothman http://www.sfpulpit.com/2009/01/15/clarifying-calvinism-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-283119 Bill Toothman Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:27:40 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2009/01/15/clarifying-calvinism-part-4/#comment-283119 The problem with the Sunday School teacher was not primarily a question of arminianism or calvanism. THE PROBLEM WAS HE DID NOT KNOW HIS BIBLE AND ANSWERED A QUESTION BASED UPON HIS OWN LOGIC. If he had been a calvanist and someone would have asked "Why pray for someone to be saved if God has predestinated those who will be saved?" and he in his own logic had answered and said you are right (as many, many do) and he never took prayer requests for the unsaved souls again he would have been just as wrong. We pray for lost souls and we witness to lost souls because we are commanded to do so in the word of God. The scripture you referred to, Romans 10:1, is a perfect example of this. I have found that many times people who take a stand against arminianism or calvanism they usually take that stand based upon faulty conclusions they draw from their own faulty logic. The problem with the Sunday School teacher was not primarily a question of arminianism or calvanism. THE PROBLEM WAS HE DID NOT KNOW HIS BIBLE AND ANSWERED A QUESTION BASED UPON HIS OWN LOGIC. If he had been a calvanist and someone would have asked “Why pray for someone to be saved if God has predestinated those who will be saved?” and he in his own logic had answered and said you are right (as many, many do) and he never took prayer requests for the unsaved souls again he would have been just as wrong.

We pray for lost souls and we witness to lost souls because we are commanded to do so in the word of God. The scripture you referred to, Romans 10:1, is a perfect example of this.

I have found that many times people who take a stand against arminianism or calvanism they usually take that stand based upon faulty conclusions they draw from their own faulty logic.

]]> By: William du Plooy http://www.sfpulpit.com/2009/01/15/clarifying-calvinism-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-282937 William du Plooy Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:11:42 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2009/01/15/clarifying-calvinism-part-4/#comment-282937 Of course the other question is: If God is sovereign (And He is), then why bother preaching? BECAUSE HE ordained the MEANS (Preaching the Law and Gospel of grace), as well as the METHOD (Conviction by the Spirit, granting True Repentance and Faith). Therefore the Both are going in the same dirrection and are indeed intertwined and not opposite, as our Armenian and Pelagian friends would suggest. And YES, this does NOT make ANY sense to a Natural (UNREGENRATED) Man. Nor will it, I mean go and tell people in your Street Evangelism that they MUST repent and Trust in Jesus and that the Law of God requires that the MUST LOve Him and ALL their fellow human beings... You will be surprised to find that few people wil respond favourably. Just think about it, UNREGENERATED? What does that mean? And as we know, when the Scripture speaks of Free Will, it has only limitations placed upon it; it does not glorify our HUMAN ABILITY or CAPACITY, contrary it condemns our human will and makes it clear in all cases that we are INCAPABLE of godliness apart from the Spirit's rebirth and making the heart of stone into a heart of flesh. I mean how do WE make a heart of stone into flesh? HOW? Free will is ONLY as free as much as it is LIMITED by the nature of SIN within us and we know this from: 1) Forensic personal evidence and experience; that the heart is deceiptful above ALL ELSE; and DESPERATELY WICKED, and that the thoughts and intents thereof are ONLY evil CONTINUALLY (Go on be honest and let us humble ourselves as mere mortal sinners). 2) Since our desires and lusts are so strong that we are rightly said to be in BONDAGE and ENSALVED to our OWN passions and sins. We honestly cannot be seriously thinking that we do NOT DESERVE the WRATH of God, or that we can cliam to PURELY and PROPERLY BE WORSHIPPING and SERVING HIM; WITH ALL OUR HEART, SOUL, MIND and STRENGTH CONTINUALLY; as is the charge of the Law both in Christ and from the start of the revelation of YAHWEH in His chosen people of old, even in Adam and Eve. 3) What shall we be saved from, IF WE CAN HELP OURSELVES? A drowning man who is incapable of swimming and needs someone to SAVE him, surely can make it to shore or a lifeboy himself, he does not need a saviour, he just needs sone help (Arminianism). But we who have lost the ability to move our limbs (Dead in sins and trespasses of our own), need Someone to come into the waters of death, to snatch us up out of the waters, to intervene and swim for us... (This Saviour is the Anointed of YAHWEH) and His power is with the Helper, the Spirit who intervenes for us, awhich He continues to intervene for us as High Priest, Advocate and Mediator. What use would we have of such offices IF we would be able to get out of such a dreadful state of death? Therfore reading the Scriptures in it's complete and whole context as One Unit is very important, as it cuts of reasoning and brings forth the godness and power of God in salvation. Just think about it; if you COULD deny Christ and have the power to deny Him SIMPLY by your mere will; YOU HAVE BECOME MORE POWERFUL than Him, which is what Satan proposed he would do... O foolish Lucifer. I am glad that He sees fit to do JUSTICE and MERCY not denying the one for the other. "Simply to Thy Cross I cling" -Rock of Ages (Augustus Montague Toplady) Of course the other question is:
If God is sovereign (And He is), then why bother preaching?
BECAUSE HE ordained the MEANS (Preaching the Law and Gospel of grace), as well as the METHOD (Conviction by the Spirit, granting True Repentance and Faith).

Therefore the Both are going in the same dirrection and are indeed intertwined and not opposite, as our Armenian and Pelagian friends would suggest.

And YES, this does NOT make ANY sense to a Natural (UNREGENRATED) Man. Nor will it, I mean go and tell people in your Street Evangelism that they MUST repent and Trust in Jesus and that the Law of God requires that the MUST LOve Him and ALL their fellow human beings… You will be surprised to find that few people wil respond favourably.

Just think about it, UNREGENERATED? What does that mean?

And as we know, when the Scripture speaks of Free Will, it has only limitations placed upon it; it does not glorify our HUMAN ABILITY or CAPACITY, contrary it condemns our human will and makes it clear in all cases that we are INCAPABLE of godliness apart from the Spirit’s rebirth and making the heart of stone into a heart of flesh. I mean how do WE make a heart of stone into flesh? HOW?

Free will is ONLY as free as much as it is LIMITED by the nature of SIN within us and we know this from:

1) Forensic personal evidence and experience; that the heart is deceiptful above ALL ELSE; and DESPERATELY WICKED, and that the thoughts and intents thereof are ONLY evil CONTINUALLY (Go on be honest and let us humble ourselves as mere mortal sinners).
2) Since our desires and lusts are so strong that we are rightly said to be in BONDAGE and ENSALVED to our OWN passions and sins. We honestly cannot be seriously thinking that we do NOT DESERVE the WRATH of God, or that we can cliam to PURELY and PROPERLY BE WORSHIPPING and SERVING HIM; WITH ALL OUR HEART, SOUL, MIND and STRENGTH CONTINUALLY; as is the charge of the Law both in Christ and from the start of the revelation of YAHWEH in His chosen people of old, even in Adam and Eve.
3) What shall we be saved from, IF WE CAN HELP OURSELVES?
A drowning man who is incapable of swimming and needs someone to SAVE him, surely can make it to shore or a lifeboy himself, he does not need a saviour, he just needs sone help (Arminianism). But we who have lost the ability to move our limbs (Dead in sins and trespasses of our own), need Someone to come into the waters of death, to snatch us up out of the waters, to intervene and swim for us… (This Saviour is the Anointed of YAHWEH) and His power is with the Helper, the Spirit who intervenes for us, awhich He continues to intervene for us as High Priest, Advocate and Mediator.

What use would we have of such offices IF we would be able to get out of such a dreadful state of death?

Therfore reading the Scriptures in it’s complete and whole context as One Unit is very important, as it cuts of reasoning and brings forth the godness and power of God in salvation.

Just think about it; if you COULD deny Christ and have the power to deny Him SIMPLY by your mere will; YOU HAVE BECOME MORE POWERFUL than Him, which is what Satan proposed he would do… O foolish Lucifer.

I am glad that He sees fit to do JUSTICE and MERCY not denying the one for the other.

“Simply to Thy Cross I cling”
-Rock of Ages (Augustus Montague Toplady)

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