I have taken this discussion to and up with members of the Sharper Iron blog.

See- http://sharperiron.org/showthread.php?t=8739

LM

If I were within earshot of some of Driscoll’s disturbing remarks I would call him aside to admonish and rebuke him sharply. If he was not repentant I would rebuke him openly.

IMO, Driscoll must think using that language will help make him culturally relevant and get him a better hearing. Where in Scripture does the Lord instruct disciples to become culturally relevant, like the world, to reach the world?

Maybe Dr. MacArthur will add an appendix to The Truth War to address Driscoll’s methodology as a warning such as the likes of which he (JM) gives in regard to Rick Warren’s methods.

LM

BTW, John Piper has also used some very course language in public discourse. Seems he is growing fond of what Driscoll uses in speech choices.

Unlike our american “football” mentally christianity – oh how we love our Quarterbacks. We praise them and rally for and against them. We have QB JP mentoring QB MD, and if QB MD would just improve on that quick release he’ll really put the team on track towards a super bowl. There’s gonna be a conference where all the great QB and RBs are going to provide insights to the game here and there, and all you fans are going to benefit so be sure to mark in your calender for this event and that.

Just 2 cents for perspective and prayer for your “unkown” pastor.

After listening (you have to listen to hear the comment…the video did not catch this) to the first Q&A with Mark Driscoll from Piper’s conference, I’m sick.
Mark is asked about his comments on his blogpost about loving John Piper and MD says, “But not in an Episcopalian way (lots of laughter from the audience). (MD then says to Piper) “You didn’t think that was funny? And Piper responds, “It’s hilarious!”
It’s so confusing to those of us who have always looked up to Piper.
We thought JP was mentoring MD, but comments like this makes us wonder.

Thoughts?

Mac

Grace and peace,

Keith

Paul writes to Timothy, “Let no one despise your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity.” He goes on to say that Timothy should be especially diligent and careful about his treatment of doctrine/scripture. The implication here is that because Timothy was a young pastor (probably in his thirties), he may be looked down on by a culture who saw age and experience as reasons to respect a man. The natural thing to do would be to “despise” this young whipper-snapper and say, “Who does he think he is?” Some would even look for a reason to say, “Aha! See, I told you! He has no business being in the pulpit.” I think that is exactly what is going on here with Pastor Driscoll.

I believe Pastor Driscoll should follow Paul’s advice and be an example to the believers in word, conduct, etc. Notice that the first item in this list directly relates to speech. Because Timothy would be scrutinized in this very way, he had to rise above and be a truly godly example to others, beginning in his speech. Likewise, Pastor Mark needs to rise above. And I think he knows this.

He has expressed a few times the fact that though a pastor should allow for “harshness” and “scatological humor” in his sermons, it should be used very seldom, as is the pattern in the scriptures. Even if this were true, Pastor Mark does not even follow his own teaching on the frequency of this kind of talk. I have heard him say on a couple occasions, after speaking in this manner, “Oh come on. You know it’s why you came. It’s why you brought a friend!” He is not practicing what he preaches and admits to the (crowd gathering) shock value of his words.

I do find it encouraging, though, that he has truly been giving this more and more serious thought through his own studies and under the mentorship of older godly men. I hope and believe that Pastor Driscoll will repent from his inappropriate language and desire to be an “example to the believers in word..”

Grace and peace,
Keith

4) Have any of you ever interviewed any of the former drug addicts, former whores, former abusers, former gays, former feminists, former fornicators, who have come to Jesus under Driscoll’s ministry, to see if they are real, genuine converts to Christ? To see why there are 12,000 plus people in seven campuses at Mars Hill Church? You should. You might change your tune if you heard from some of them!!

Have you? I would love to hear at least 10. I can compare notes with how the Lord saved sinners such as my husband and I from some of the catagories above. Please post those testimonies here, have those folks here defending their Pastor, I would defend my Pastor. Saved in difficult Seattle? come see the power of the gospel and the Lord in the SF Bay, really can any good thing come out of here, yes, and without a Mars Hill Church and a Mark Driscoll.

I’m sorry I was not clear enough in my first statement. Let me clarify: I do not intend in anyway to affirm or deny the dispute that Driscoll’s language is inappropriate for a person of his position. In fact, if I take any position it’s close to yours. You’ll notice the first person plural “we” in my first comment, as in “we disagree with Driscoll.”

I understand that by Driscoll’s words he runs the risk of causing believer’s to stumble, I have said as much myself when dealing with this issue with my friends. I understand your position that his speech is plainly in violation of Scripture passages such as James 3 and Ephesians 5:4. I partly agree with it.

But that’s not my point. My point is that it is not helpful to condemn anyone of being in violation of James 3 or Ephesians 5:4 if by doing so we ourselves violate Ephesians 4:1-3, which commands us to treat believers with humility, gentleness and patience, (the text doesn’t give qualifiers on how long we are to do this for, the command is for an indefinite period of time) and with an eagerness that longs “to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.”

I realize that one can make the case that Mark also falls short in this aspect. So why don’t I criticize Mark? Here’s how my thinking goes: What’s the point of criticizing Mark? Has it not already been done by many here? Would I in any way be adding to the conversation? Would such speech give grace to the hearers? Would Mark be changed by my comment?

The answers, of course, are: Not much, Yeah, Not really, Probably not, Definitely not. So why correct you? Because you probably will read what I have to say. Because I might impact your thinking with the Word of God. It’s ok that you disagree with Mark. But the Word of God, not Trevor, demands that you do so with humility, gentleness and patience. It also demands an eagerness in your heart for unity. Please, look over your comments, read Ephesians 4, pray over what you’ve said and be open to what the Holy Spirit might say. Lord knows that I’ve said things I’ve shouldn’t in comment boxes before. But he is forgiving, and does not expect us to be perfect in every way, only to be humble and teachable. And even for that I rely on His grace.

Struggling with you to that end,

Trevor