Comments on: Young, Restless, Reformed http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/ A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:54:00 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Penn http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/comment-page-1/#comment-227244 Penn Wed, 17 Sep 2008 14:47:20 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/#comment-227244 (I'm a little behind on this discussion, so perhaps a long comment may be a little more acceptable). My story is pretty similar to what has been described. I grew up in a presbyterian (non-reformed) church with some modern mennonite family influences. I was home-schooled which was great, because of all the freedom I had to learn on my own and to enjoy life playing and working outside, as well as spending quality time with family. My Christian thinking was mostly shaped by reading the Bible. I didn't read it all, or even that much, but I could remember what I read very well. I hated youth groups. Everything we did was worldly and had absolutely no (or at least very little) spiritual significance. Everybody in my community thinks they are Christians because they said the sinner's prayer. All the little kids say it when they are very young. When I got to college I was into drugs and alcohol. I began reading the Bible on my own, and Romans thrust through my heart like a double-edged sword. After that, I was unsatisfied with the evangelical church culture, because I had been so profoundly changed by reading the Bible. I used to listen to MacArthur and Sproul on the radio in Pittsburgh (I had never heard them before). After tha,t I joined an evangelistic enthusiastic group from the "international churches of christ" sect. Through those years, I experienced a lot of theological 'agonizomai' (intense struggle). That sharpened my understanding of the Bible and church history. (I was in art college during this time for graphic design). Well, to make a long story short, I encountered the doctrines of grace through the most evangelistic and fired up group of out-of-the-ordinary Christians. They were intensely evangelistic, ex-roman catholic, and their Bible study was on fire with Scripture, and they were lowly, not extremely educated people. My heart was lit up with joy after getting clear, Biblical teaching on the very doctrines I had long ago come to believe and cherish, yet could not articulate or understand Scripturally very well. It was only after I grew to value the doctrines of grace that I became better acquainted with the books and audio of John Piper and John MacArthur. I am still a very small minority in the evangelical world in Pennsylvania. Most people are anti-theological and semi-post-modern-charismatic. Thanks for the encouragement! :D (I’m a little behind on this discussion, so perhaps a long comment may be a little more acceptable).

My story is pretty similar to what has been described. I grew up in a presbyterian (non-reformed) church with some modern mennonite family influences. I was home-schooled which was great, because of all the freedom I had to learn on my own and to enjoy life playing and working outside, as well as spending quality time with family. My Christian thinking was mostly shaped by reading the Bible. I didn’t read it all, or even that much, but I could remember what I read very well. I hated youth groups. Everything we did was worldly and had absolutely no (or at least very little) spiritual significance. Everybody in my community thinks they are Christians because they said the sinner’s prayer. All the little kids say it when they are very young.

When I got to college I was into drugs and alcohol. I began reading the Bible on my own, and Romans thrust through my heart like a double-edged sword. After that, I was unsatisfied with the evangelical church culture, because I had been so profoundly changed by reading the Bible. I used to listen to MacArthur and Sproul on the radio in Pittsburgh (I had never heard them before). After tha,t I joined an evangelistic enthusiastic group from the “international churches of christ” sect. Through those years, I experienced a lot of theological ‘agonizomai’ (intense struggle). That sharpened my understanding of the Bible and church history. (I was in art college during this time for graphic design).

Well, to make a long story short, I encountered the doctrines of grace through the most evangelistic and fired up group of out-of-the-ordinary Christians. They were intensely evangelistic, ex-roman catholic, and their Bible study was on fire with Scripture, and they were lowly, not extremely educated people. My heart was lit up with joy after getting clear, Biblical teaching on the very doctrines I had long ago come to believe and cherish, yet could not articulate or understand Scripturally very well. It was only after I grew to value the doctrines of grace that I became better acquainted with the books and audio of John Piper and John MacArthur. I am still a very small minority in the evangelical world in Pennsylvania. Most people are anti-theological and semi-post-modern-charismatic.

Thanks for the encouragement! :D

]]> By: Stan Ermshar http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/comment-page-1/#comment-207141 Stan Ermshar Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:23:11 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/#comment-207141 This is a great book. Dennis Fischer(see his post above) and I both come out of an Adventist background similar to Robin Treto mentioned in the book in the first chapter. Calvinism is the perfect antidote to Adventism and Arminianism in general. Dennis and I post on a blog that is specializing in introducing the doctrines of grace to current Adventists as well as former Adventists at www.forthegospel.org Soli Deo Gloria! Stan Ermshar This is a great book. Dennis Fischer(see his post above) and I both come out of an Adventist background similar to Robin Treto mentioned in the book in the first chapter.

Calvinism is the perfect antidote to Adventism and Arminianism in general.

Dennis and I post on a blog that is specializing in introducing the doctrines of grace to current Adventists as well as former Adventists at http://www.forthegospel.org

Soli Deo Gloria!

Stan Ermshar

]]> By: JohnWassink http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/comment-page-1/#comment-205652 JohnWassink Thu, 21 Aug 2008 05:25:08 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/#comment-205652 "But, your average American-Evangelical 22-year-old is probably a foaming-at-the-mouth Calvinist, a John Piper “fiend,” and would love to stay up all night arguing about the difference between justification and sanctification. What in the world happens to these kids between ages 18 and 22?" Well, I'm 22 years old and I'm decidedly Calvinistic based on the clear teaching of Scripture. I was dead in my sins and trespasses until the age of 20. I didn't grow up in a bible saturated home. My father isn't a believer. My mother taught me about the Bible at a young age and forced me to go to a somewhat charismatic church a few times here and there. She was never very committed to any church though. I had certain Calvinistic (biblical) convictions about God before I was even a true believer - some are common sense, even to the natural man. (For example, at a young age I sort of understood election and I remember pondering why God chose me to be born where I was, with a mother who taught me about Him as opposed to the heathen in Africa. Obviously if God is sovereign, surely He chooses those who will believe.) After a several years of drinking, marijuana addiction, good grades, bad relationships with girls, and outstanding sports achievements, God showed me the pain and vanity associated with all this world has to offer and by the grace of God, Jesus Christ became my only treasure (Matt. 13:44). I wasn't too excited about church after my conversion so I listened to teachers on the radio instead. John MacArthur instantly stood out and I fell in love with Him and his immense gifts. I'm a John MacArthur/John Piper/ RC Sproul/ CH Spurgeon/ Jonathan Edwards/ DM Loyd Jones/ John Calvin "fiend." I would love to stay up all night be speak about the Word - but not argue. God also led me to a wonderful church where the Bible reigns supreme and where the Word is preached without compromise - consequently some of these men I listed are almost always quoted by our Pastor. “But, your average American-Evangelical 22-year-old is probably a foaming-at-the-mouth Calvinist, a John Piper “fiend,” and would love to stay up all night arguing about the difference between justification and sanctification. What in the world happens to these kids between ages 18 and 22?”

Well, I’m 22 years old and I’m decidedly Calvinistic based on the clear teaching of Scripture. I was dead in my sins and trespasses until the age of 20. I didn’t grow up in a bible saturated home. My father isn’t a believer. My mother taught me about the Bible at a young age and forced me to go to a somewhat charismatic church a few times here and there. She was never very committed to any church though. I had certain Calvinistic (biblical) convictions about God before I was even a true believer – some are common sense, even to the natural man. (For example, at a young age I sort of understood election and I remember pondering why God chose me to be born where I was, with a mother who taught me about Him as opposed to the heathen in Africa. Obviously if God is sovereign, surely He chooses those who will believe.)

After a several years of drinking, marijuana addiction, good grades, bad relationships with girls, and outstanding sports achievements, God showed me the pain and vanity associated with all this world has to offer and by the grace of God, Jesus Christ became my only treasure (Matt. 13:44). I wasn’t too excited about church after my conversion so I listened to teachers on the radio instead. John MacArthur instantly stood out and I fell in love with Him and his immense gifts. I’m a John MacArthur/John Piper/ RC Sproul/ CH Spurgeon/ Jonathan Edwards/ DM Loyd Jones/ John Calvin “fiend.” I would love to stay up all night be speak about the Word – but not argue. God also led me to a wonderful church where the Bible reigns supreme and where the Word is preached without compromise – consequently some of these men I listed are almost always quoted by our Pastor.

]]> By: Dan Hagan http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/comment-page-1/#comment-205304 Dan Hagan Wed, 20 Aug 2008 16:26:40 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/#comment-205304 Dear Brother Jacob, The Reformation (and truly reformed theology) does not in anyway subvert or replace the God-breathed (Apostolic) teachings! In fact, the sole mission of the great reformers was to point us to Christ and the first century church as the true model for worship and praise! Calvinism is not a denomination of the Christian faith. It is a philosophy of pursuing the biblical truth that was supremely evident and practiced during the Apostle Paul's lifetime. Many thanks to Mr. Johnson for the great review! In Christ, Dan... Dear Brother Jacob,

The Reformation (and truly reformed theology) does not in anyway subvert or replace the God-breathed (Apostolic) teachings! In fact, the sole mission of the great reformers was to point us to Christ and the first century church as the true model for worship and praise!

Calvinism is not a denomination of the Christian faith. It is a philosophy of pursuing the biblical truth that was supremely evident and practiced during the Apostle Paul’s lifetime.

Many thanks to Mr. Johnson for the great review!

In Christ,

Dan…

]]> By: Dennis Fischer http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/comment-page-1/#comment-204962 Dennis Fischer Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:40:25 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/#comment-204962 This is an excellent book that well depicts the disharmony between Arminianism and Calvinism among the young and restless today. Moreover, it reports on the ever-increasing restlessness with a man-centered theology that seeks to merely entertain young adults. The first chapter tells the story of a young Seventh-day Adventist who was a theology student at Southern Adventist University. Since Calvinism is a bad word in SDA circles, he could no longer remain the sole Calvinist among his SDA ministerial peers. His intently listening to many sermons by John Piper gave him the final compulsion to become a Calvinist. God is calling many, out of even cultic religions, as never before seen. Truly, we serve an awesome and prayer-answering God! This is an excellent book that well depicts the disharmony between Arminianism and Calvinism among the young and restless today. Moreover, it reports on the ever-increasing restlessness with a man-centered theology that seeks to merely entertain young adults. The first chapter tells the story of a young Seventh-day Adventist who was a theology student at Southern Adventist University.

Since Calvinism is a bad word in SDA circles, he could no longer remain the sole Calvinist among his SDA ministerial peers. His intently listening to many sermons by John Piper gave him the final compulsion to become a Calvinist. God is calling many, out of even cultic religions, as never before seen. Truly, we serve an awesome and prayer-answering God!

]]> By: Jacob Lichner http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/comment-page-1/#comment-204947 Jacob Lichner Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:34:12 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/#comment-204947 That book does sound interesting... I never belonged to a cheesy youth group, but I did indeed latch on to the "doctrines of grace" during that time period (18 onward). However, since then, (I'm now turning 22) I have woken up to the fact that these doctrines are of man more than they are of grace. Reform is what we desperately need, but it is an ugly mistake to stop at Calvin, Luther or the Puritans and not go all the way back to the apostles. That book does sound interesting… I never belonged to a cheesy youth group, but I did indeed latch on to the “doctrines of grace” during that time period (18 onward).

However, since then, (I’m now turning 22) I have woken up to the fact that these doctrines are of man more than they are of grace. Reform is what we desperately need, but it is an ugly mistake to stop at Calvin, Luther or the Puritans and not go all the way back to the apostles.

]]> By: Brian Mueller http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/comment-page-1/#comment-204946 Brian Mueller Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:30:47 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/#comment-204946 The same thing happened with me. However, our youth pastor, as hard as he tried to preach the truth, still relies on games and events to lure youth in. What we should have been doing was making disciples to send out into the culture to present others with the gospel, so that more disciples could be made, and so on. If you haven't checked out the new wave of (non-cheesy, theologically sound) Christian rap, I suggest you listen to the following: Flame, J'Son, shai linne, Evangel, Cross Movement, Ambassador, Phanatik, Lecrae, Tedashii, Trip Lee, Sho Baraka, Azrielicia, Dillon Chase, Thi'sl, and more. I was at the Legacy Disciple-Making Conference in Chicago this past weekend, and the reformed christian hip/hop community was in force! We were there for solid biblical teaching. There were different workshop tracks, and here are the titles: Basic Bible Doctrines, Evangelism, Community Impact Ministry (the one I took), Hermeneutics, Basics of Disciple-Making, Spiritual Disciples, Biblical Manhood, and Biblical Womanhood. Where did this come from? An earnest desire to know the truth about who God is and how he saved us. Praise God that there are brothers and sisters willing to go out into culture with the gospel message without watering it down. www.crossmovement.com www.reachrecords.com www.lampmode.com www.christ-in-a-hip-hopper.com/ www.json116.com www.flame314.com The same thing happened with me. However, our youth pastor, as hard as he tried to preach the truth, still relies on games and events to lure youth in. What we should have been doing was making disciples to send out into the culture to present others with the gospel, so that more disciples could be made, and so on. If you haven’t checked out the new wave of (non-cheesy, theologically sound) Christian rap, I suggest you listen to the following: Flame, J’Son, shai linne, Evangel, Cross Movement, Ambassador, Phanatik, Lecrae, Tedashii, Trip Lee, Sho Baraka, Azrielicia, Dillon Chase, Thi’sl, and more. I was at the Legacy Disciple-Making Conference in Chicago this past weekend, and the reformed christian hip/hop community was in force! We were there for solid biblical teaching. There were different workshop tracks, and here are the titles: Basic Bible Doctrines, Evangelism, Community Impact Ministry (the one I took), Hermeneutics, Basics of Disciple-Making, Spiritual Disciples, Biblical Manhood, and Biblical Womanhood. Where did this come from? An earnest desire to know the truth about who God is and how he saved us. Praise God that there are brothers and sisters willing to go out into culture with the gospel message without watering it down.

http://www.crossmovement.com
http://www.reachrecords.com
http://www.lampmode.com
http://www.christ-in-a-hip-hopper.com/
http://www.json116.com
http://www.flame314.com

]]> By: Shannon http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/comment-page-1/#comment-204945 Shannon Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:28:40 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/#comment-204945 I have to wonder if it is the natural pendulum swing away from all of the faddish, shallow teaching of the past couple of decades. I find myself craving more meat and less milk even during the Sunday sermon. But, the upside of that is that it has spurred me to seek out better teaching and more in depth study on my own. I have to wonder if it is the natural pendulum swing away from all of the faddish, shallow teaching of the past couple of decades. I find myself craving more meat and less milk even during the Sunday sermon. But, the upside of that is that it has spurred me to seek out better teaching and more in depth study on my own.

]]> By: Lilly http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/comment-page-1/#comment-204933 Lilly Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:22:24 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/#comment-204933 This sounds like a very good read! Just like Mr. Johnson, I thought my experience wasn't common, but it is great to see that there are other young people out there who are diving into theology and living their lives for Christ! This sounds like a very good read! Just like Mr. Johnson, I thought my experience wasn’t common, but it is great to see that there are other young people out there who are diving into theology and living their lives for Christ!

]]> By: Alex Yepiz http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/comment-page-1/#comment-204932 Alex Yepiz Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:11:10 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/08/19/young-restless-reformed/#comment-204932 **much less to stand up to their secular professors** So would you say that college educated Christians are the ones becoming Calvinists. This would definately describe me, and it would explain why many non-educated or non-college grad Christians see our problems with youth ministry in today's churches as "divisive." Many who do not attend college do not have to fight for their faith on a DAILY basis, especially in cases like mine where I don't go to a "Conservative" or "Christian" school. I began to study the Bible and found that "Purpose Driven" lies do not lead to Jesus Christ, only to the type of youth groups described in the book. I will definately pick up this book. Thanks for the review. **much less to stand up to their secular professors**

So would you say that college educated Christians are the ones becoming Calvinists. This would definately describe me, and it would explain why many non-educated or non-college grad Christians see our problems with youth ministry in today’s churches as “divisive.”

Many who do not attend college do not have to fight for their faith on a DAILY basis, especially in cases like mine where I don’t go to a “Conservative” or “Christian” school. I began to study the Bible and found that “Purpose Driven” lies do not lead to Jesus Christ, only to the type of youth groups described in the book.

I will definately pick up this book. Thanks for the review.

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