When to Leave Your Church (Part 2)
July 1st, 2008
(By Jesse Johnson)
Just recently, in an article titled “When to Leave Your Church,” John MacArthur wrote, “There is certainly nothing wrong with moving one’s membership just because another church offers better teaching or more opportunities for growth and service.” He wrote this in a context, and with a disclaimer, but even so, this statement that drew several responses, ranging from negative to shocked. Today, I want to try and elaborate on that statement from an autobiographical perspective.
I was saved in a strong church, although not one that really taught Calvinistic soteriology. So, once I learned the doctrines of Grace, there was the temptation to leave. However, I talked the issue through with my pastor, and decided that it would be best for me to remain in that church. I am glad I did, because that is the church that baptized, and later ordained me.
Eventually though, I reached a point where seminary training was necessary. This required leaving my church, and moving to Grace Community Church. This was not an easy decision, because it meant leaving the church that earlier I had purposed to stay in. However, this is exactly what John meant when he wrote that “there is certainly nothing wrong with moving one’s membership just because another church offers better teaching or more opportunities for growth and service.” Grace Community Church had The Master’s Seminary, John’s preaching, and opportunities for service commensurate with the new training I received.
This is also a two-way street. Even this year, some members of Grace switched their membership to small church in West Los Angeles because they had specific skills that their new church needed. This is the same kind of moving that takes place when a seminary graduate leaves Grace to go lead or assist in a smaller church. And this is the same kind of moving that takes place when an Assistant Pastor leaves one church, to lead another church.
Now this principle, that it can be good to leave one church for another with better teaching or more opportunities for growth and service, is not a principle reserved for pastors or seminary students- as if somehow their church membership is less important than a lay person’s. Rather, this is a principle that should be modeled throughout the body of Christ. If one church has a need, and a lay person is at another church, and he has the ability to meet that need, it may very well be that this move would be God’s solution.
As with all major life decisions, this kind of change should be done only after getting wisdom and direction from elders or leaders of the church. But elders and leaders should remember their own decisions—when they left their earlier church for seminary, when they left that church for their ministry, and so on—as they give their counsel. When that is done, then I believe that the body of Christ will be strengthened, not weakened.
Jesse, thanks for coming back to this. As one of the objectors in the previous thread I would agree with most of what you have to say. I too left a church that I had grown up in to go work with a church plant in another part of town. But that is where I would see line. I left to serve others. It was convenient for me. I didn’t go there because the programs provided more opportunity for growth. I think you go a long way in clarifying the issue here but I think we need to be aware that we are speaking to people in a consumeristic culture that see “There is nothing wrong…” and jump for that encouragement. I do not doubt that most church hoppers can come up with some kind of rationale.
One of the things that I believe every church should do is ask prospective members to give testimony to God’s leading them to the church as well as to salvation. I really haven’t figured out a way to do it yet but I would also like people who leave to get up and tell everyone with equal clarity how God is leading them away from this local body!
In the first article some of Dr. MacArthurs defenders felt that all the naysayers were just jealous pastors who are less gifted. I want to reiterate that I hold Pastor John in high regard (even if I disagree with how he expressed himself in the article) and I am not a pastor anyway! I am a sheep who is broken-hearted when other sheep wander away from their under-shepherd and the under-shepherd just shrugs and moves on.
God guides,feeds,grows.according to His Word. if the Church you are attending does not consistently give it out verse by verse without small talk,jokes,personallitys,sports,motorcycles,comprising a percentage of the actual worship service which consists of 1 hour per week total.What can a layperson do?
This article hit home for me.
I was saved and began to attend a very Arminian church…I had no idea that there was any difference and that it would matter…
Between the time I was saved and now (3.5 yrs)I investigated the doctrines of grace and realized that my church was teaching things that were contrary to the word of God.
I’m now looking for a reformed church within reasonable driving distance because i find that out of a 40 minute sermon each week, 30% of it has to be discarded due to the jokes, stories, and Arminian leanings.
It’s not worth it to me to stay…I need more.
To assume you will stay in the same church till you die denies the outworking of God’s will in our lives. I think that it is man’s sinful traditions judging, in some cases, the hand of God.
Scenario 1: you’ve joined a large Southern Baptist church and 1 month later the pastor resigns. The new pastor, hired about 6 months later, comes in and you realize that he has an agenda you just don’t know what it is. After some time, a staff member mentions that the new pastor had everyone on staff obtain and read a certain book. It’s “The Purpose-Driven Church”. You get it and read it. You notice the different focus of the book and start reading up on the Church Growth Movement and the Seeker-Sensitive Movement. You hear the pastor quote the book during the next 6 months of sermons, but with no reference. Over time you see changes. After a while, you buy and give the pastor the book “Willow Creek Seeker Services, Evaluating a New Way of Doing Church”, a book that doesn’t support the seeker service model. He doesn’t want to discuss the issue, but will only say that since the church is an already established church, “we won’t be able to go as far as Willow Creek”. The changes continue. You increasingly have to lean over and say to your kids, during the sermon, “that wasn’t biblical”. The church finally buys every member a copy of “The Purpose-Drive Life” and starts the 40-Days of Purpose. As an adult Sunday School teacher, you are supposed to teach Rick Warren’s curriculum. You cannot support the direction the church is going (actually gone), and you can’t stop it. Leave or stay?
Scenario 2: you are looking for a church where the doctrines of grace are held, and where the leadership has not bought into the Church Growth Movement (CGM) philosophy. You find a Reformed Baptist church where this is true. They have adopted the 1689 London Baptist Confession as their doctrinal standard (it’s in the church constitution). In reading through the Confession, you see that you do not agree with its interpretation at every point, as it approaches Scripture from a Covenantal Theological position. However, the question is “Are you in substantial agreement with the Confession?”, and you can answer in the affirmative to this. You also notice that in the church constitution, “Duties of Members” there are a few requirements that you do not believe the local church has the biblical authority to place upon it’s membership (Christian Sabbath observance, tithing, attending every stated meeting unless providentially hindered), but you know that you regularly support and attend, and that your normal activities on any given Sunday will be such that most would not have a problem. (As it turns out, the real problem is that you don’t agree.) You are so happy to find a church where the doctrines of grace are taught and the CGM isn’t, and it appears that the areas of disagreement won’t be pushed, you join. Also, you are willing to study more in these areas of disagreement, to ensure that you understand what Scripture says in regards to these matters. After serving for a couple of years, you begin noticing that the church is slowly being moved into a subscriptionist position to the 1689. A lot of people leave, and you start hearing that “God is purging the church”. Several times, over the years you’ve told the pastor that you don’t agree with every aspect of Covenantal Theology, but it seems like he doesn’t really want to hear any area of disagreement. You are reading books in the church library, and those provided by the pastor, as he moves to change the church in different areas (many of which you are fine with). The pastors start meeting with a group of other subscriptionist pastors. The associate pastor spends ~3 years going through the Confession on Wednesday nights and teaches the 1689 position on every point. Finally, the pastor starts a series on the 10 Commandments. In a conversation at a ballgame, (just your two families) you tell him that you do not believe the church is required to observe the Sabbath. He doesn’t ask why, or discuss the issue with you, but over the next 5 or 6 weeks, he mentions a number of books and websites to you, (New Covenant) and indicates that he is obtaining/reading them. You hadn’t been aware of these until he brings them up. He indicates that he is having, to modify his upcoming sermons based upon what he is reading. As it turns out he’s really been trying to find out what you’ve been reading, but he gives you the impression that he is open to what they have to say. However, upon starting his exposition on the 4th Commandment, he goes out of his way to attack anyone who doesn’t agree with the Confession on this point, even historical figures. During the second sermon on the Sabbath, your teenage daughter, who at this point, doesn’t know that you don’t agree leans over to your wife and says “It sounds like he’s trying to run down anyone who doesn’t agree”. According to the pastor, those who don’t agree “don’t understand Scripture, have fallen away, may be sinning…” He goes on to outline what you can and can’t do on Sunday (eating out on Sunday is a big no-no). You contact the pastor (after the second sermon, five total) and ask what place you have in the church, as it’s obvious from the tone and content of his sermons that he doesn’t think very highly of anyone who disagrees. His response is to refer you to the church constitution and then he does his best to avoid you for the next month or so. You haven’t said anything to anyone in the church, except your wife. The pastor does tell the Elders and other deacon about you, so that you now become ’suspect’ (based on the looks and comments). It even filters down to your kids. During one class, a classmate says “Well, we know there are some in the church who don’t hold to the right view on the Sabbath”, and then looks at your kid (yes, the first kid was one of the pastor’s sons). The other deacon, a full subscriptionist, becomes increasingly hostile (although you still haven’t said anything to anyone). Evidence of legalism and hypocrisy become increasingly evident. In your studies, you realize that you have not changed your position on the points of disagreement. You also realize that there is little, or no, room for disagreement with the leadership. Stay and be quiet? Stay and speak up on those areas where you think the leadership is teaching error, or leave (as quietly as possible)?
Certainly, an Arminian/Seeker-Sensitive/Emerging church can give you plenty of reasons to leave, but so can a ‘Reformed’ church.
I live in a reasonably small community that was, for a few years, without a solidly Calvinistic church. There were a couple of Calvinistic churches, but they were Landmarkers and even their Reformed soteriology could not make up for their Roman Catholic-esque Ecclesiology.
Then, one day a PCA church in a camparatively large metropolitan area in our state established a sort of satellite fellowship in our town. This grew eventually into a missionary church with its own pastor (who ministered under the auspices of the parent church from the big city). I attended this fellowship and church, even though I was an immersionist by conviction, because I have a lot more in common theologically with a Calvinistic Paedobaptist than an Arminian Baptist.
Nevertheless, Infant Baptism is a serious error–a holdover from Roman Catholicism that the Reformers couldn’t quite reform themselves away from (although, to be fair, the Presbyterians and some others others have removed at least th overte element of Baptismal Regeneration that the Catholics hold to).
I did not feel that I could, in good conscience, become a full fledged, official member of an infant baptizing church. What I agreed to do was attend the church, submit myself to the discipline of the congregation, and refrain from sowing discord in any area in which I was in disagreement with the church leadership.
HOWEVER–when I discovered a Calvinistic, immersionist church with a strong, healthy, well-balanced Biblical conviction, I had no qualms watsoever about joining it (after a sufficiently long period of careful investigation in order to be sure). Were I forced by circumstance to attend an Arminian church, I would just as quickly leave if I had the opportunity to join a church that I perceived was more committed to preaching the clear truth of the Word of God.
I don’t mean I’d quickly jump to a new church over every little theological qualm, but some doctrinal issues are so important, and so clearly revealed in Scripture, that rejection of them becomes at some point an issue of rebellion on the part of the leadership or congregation (or both). At that point, I think a believer is well justified in departing (sometimes he will be ejected for his convictions, like Jonathan Edwards).
Actually, I would appreciate it if you removed my last comment (scenario 1 and 2). It sounds too much like a gripe session. I really wanted to point out that even ‘Reformed’ churches can give you plenty of reasons (doctrinal, and/or personal) to leave. Thanks.
Hello Michael –
It didn’t sound like a grip session at all. I found it very insightful. I’m in the difficult position (hence finding this link on this blog for the first time) of considering leaving a church. My reason is more Scenario 2 with a dose of heavy shepherding. Please pray for me. I also loved the fact that in the scenario you wrote about the person concerned acted in a godly way by not discussing their worries and concerns with other members.
God bless you,
Allan, Bristol, UK.
Michael,
In relation to “Scenario 2″ above: I was at a Shepherd’s Conference several years ago and had the honor of sitting at the dinner table with Dr. Irvin Busenitz. At one point, he was asked something along the lines of whether he would attend an amillennial church if it was the only Reformed church available? Presumably, it would also be a Covenantal church since Covenant Theology’s elimination of a future heritage for Israel necessarily demands an eschatological contortion like amillennialism. Dr. Busenitz gave a sobering response: He said (and this is a paraphrase from a more than ten-year-old memory), “I could attend such a church, and successfully filter out what was not correct. But, I would not want my children exposed to it.”