Preaching and Postmodernism (Part 2)
June 5th, 2008
(By John MacArthur)
This is the second part of an interview with John MacArthur on the subject of expository preaching in a postmodern world.
QUESTION: In a lot of today’s literature on preaching, the idea exists that preaching should impact culture and culture should shape the style of preaching. How does that land with you?
I don’t think either of those things is true. I don’t think preaching is going to impact culture—I think preaching is going to impact people. And indirectly, if the Lord determines to save a mass of people, it’s going to have some social impact on the country or the nation or the world. You have the Great Awakening in America having some short-term—and maybe even some long-term—cultural impact, but unbelievers are always going to behave like unbelievers. The culture may be more or less influenced by Christianity, but I don’t think the objective should be impacting culture, if by that you mean anything less than conversion.
As far as the culture shaping preaching, I would say it shapes preaching only in the sense that you address the issues. If you want to define what’s wrong with a society, you need to know something about the society. In different cultures there are different dominant sins or kinds of behavior or belief systems that need to be addressed. If you are preaching the gospel in a third-world country, for example, the things that dominate their lives would be different than ours. They might not include materialism and the kinds of things that are unique to an affluent Western society. So when you’re talking about the sins of the age or the dominant influences in the culture, they vary from place to place, and it is helpful to know what they are. But that doesn’t say anything about what style of preaching you use. That only says how you enter into the dialogue with the culture.
Paul says, if I speak to Jews I speak a certain way, and if I speak to Gentiles I speak a certain way. But that’s only at the point of entry. That has nothing to say about the style. In other words, people today are used to watching sitcoms on TV, but that doesn’t demand that you preach in a narrative style. I would say you ought to avoid that style, because people are so used to it. People are used to plays and theatrics and movies, and so avoid all of that in your preaching, and your message will come in a very unfamiliar package. There will be a starkness to it, and it will be distinct and contrary to what they are used to hearing. That’s one reason I prefer the expository and authoritative sermon—it’s so contrary to what people are used to that it’s riveting and compelling.
QUESTION: Apart from the gifting of God and His unique work through you, what have been the keys to the effectiveness of your preaching ministry over the years?
The first thing is interest. I think it’s interesting. I don’t know why it’s interesting. I’ve tried to understand and assess that, but I really don’t know. People are not going to come Sunday after Sunday, year after year, and listen to me for an hour in the morning and another hour at night if they’re not interested in what I’m saying. And that has nothing to do with outlines or illustrations. Outlines serve a purpose and some illustrations capture the moment, but over the long haul in order for people to listen to expository preaching week-in week-out, there has to be a compelling interest to it.
Some of it has to do with the element of surprise. Preachers who are interesting say things that people don’t expect them to say. As a preacher, you cannot simply say those things that are obvious to everyone and expect to create interest. There must be an element of surprise. It may not be that you’re introducing a surprising doctrine, but you’re saying it in a captivating way.
If you’re boring in a personal conversation, you’re probably going to be boring in a sermon. Some people are just interesting people—and interesting to talk to—because they have interesting insights and an interesting way to express things. Some of that is innate, but you can also become interesting if you can get interesting material. So I think the challenge is to be interesting, and the way to be more interesting than you would normally be is to have interesting information. And that demands that you be an extensive reader.
In addition to being interesting, a preacher must also be profound. And when I talk about profound, I’m not talking about being thick and heavy and obscure—I’m talking about being deep. In other words, there’s something underneath the surface, something under the popular radar that’s in the text and that you’re able to give to the people. You’re able to go down into the passage and pull up the treasure that they—no matter how many times they go over it on their own—are not going to get. And it’s not just for the sake of interest—it comes with some weight, because it deals with the question, “What is God really saying here?”
On the surface there are certain things that people can see, but by the time I get done with a passage, there is a depth of understanding of what God is communicating in the text that is surprising to them because they couldn’t see it. And it’s weighty to them, because it brings the force of truth to bear on their lives.
Another thing that makes preaching effective is creating the original setting of the text so it becomes a living event. Whether it’s Paul writing to a church or Jesus with the Pharisees, you want to bring your people there, so that they are in the environment, living it and seeing it unfold. And that means you have to do a lot of background and context work—you’ve got to create the context as a living context.
Rather than trying to take the Bible and bring it into the modern day, I try to take the modern day and bring it back to the Bible. And that’s a distinction you want to make. This stuff about culture shaping preaching is taking the Bible and redefining it in modern terms. My goal is to take modern culture and the people of that culture and redefine them in biblical terms so that they are living back in the Scriptures.
Along with living a life of integrity and being prayerful and dependent on the Lord, those are the keys to effective preaching.
Sir:
I’ve been thinking of a way to let you know how much I appreciate your writings, books, etc. Maybe this will get to you. If it does, I do want to thank you for your teaching. Thank you, thank you!
I was a musician and Worship Leader but four strokes a year ago haulted that. I am now completing online courses for a Bacholor’s Degree in Ministry. Biblically, I cannot be a minister of the Gospel, but I can learn. I feel God has left me here for a reason. I may not ever know what that reason is but I’m trying to prepare myself for whatever. I was motivated to action by your booklet “FOUND:God’s Will”.
I confess to being in a turmoil regarding Lordship Salvation as opposed to Eternal Security. I find good men on either side of the Word using it to defend both doctrines.
Your CD,”Saved or Self-Deceived?” is wonderful and spurs even more thought on the two doctrines.
I just finished my first reading of “First Love” and will go to “Two Sons”. Then, “Second Coming” and “Different By Design”. How I appreciate your ministry!
You make it difficult NOT to be a “pastor worshiper”
Love, In Christ, To You,
Geary Duncan
I don’t think it is always bad to talk about culture shaping preaching. This does not mean we change the message but it could well mean we change how we choose to deliver the message. Rhetorical styles change, ways of expressing things change, types of illustrations change, use of technology changes, and so on. These are all in response to a changing culture.
If what we say starts to change then we are in trouble. If how we say it starts to change, that could be good or bad depending on what is being done.
You know, Chris, everyone one whom I have heard say what you just said has eventually changed the message. Some, probably like yourself, are well intentioned, while for others it is just a smoke screen to hide their real intentions; but none the less the message does get changed.
Methodology does matter. What we dress the message, the gospel, up in does have an impact on the message itself, much less how it is perceived by the hearer.
Additionally, we do want to be distinct, different from the world, because what we are speaking about and presenting is contrary to every culture that has ever existed; and though each culture make look different on the outside,at their heart they are all the same. Israel was judged by God because it became like the nations around it, which was what God warned it not to do. The command for us is no different, “Come out of their midst and be separate.”
We, as salt and light, don’t engage the culture, we confront the culture. And it all begins in the pulpit. As the pulpit goes so goes the church, and the minute the message starts to change, even in the slightest, so does the church.
Morris
Scripture has one message, and that is God’s grace in real lives. Jesus didn’t die at Calvary to save a culture. He died to save people. We miss the purpose of Gospel ministry when we seek to change the culture directly, rather than through the lives of the redeemed.
I have to admit that I really struggle with this whole idea. It seems to me that in the days of Jesus, He preached in a way that was culturally relevant to His people. Paul, Peter and John did the same. The way people preach today is certainly influenced by our Western culture. The way many preachers give their sermons today is hardly counter-cultural even if the message is. I can’t see Jesus standing behind a giant wooden pulpit wearing a suit and given three points on a passage. So where did that come from? Our Western culture, that’s where. Jesus spoke in a way that was uniquely Eastern because that was His culture. So who decides what a “Biblical” method of preaching is exactly? I thought the point was to communicate the truth of God’s Word in a way that makes sense to those who hear.
Peregrin Joe.
Stop struggling and start listening.
peregrinjoe.
Jesus preached in the synagogue using scrolls much like our preachers today would preach in a church using a scroll/Bible. Also, He preached in the streets much like a modern day steet preacher. Just wanted to throw that in.
James: Yeah, that’s real helpful.
It worked for me.
The two best pieces of advice I ever received on my spiritual journey were…
1. Things are only as complicated as I need to make them to avoid taking the action that God wants me to.
2. Take the cotton out of my ears and stick it in my mouth.
Sometimes we “outsmart” ourselves.
Grace and Peace.
Peregrin Joe, keep thinking.
Jesus used the very narrative style criticized in the article above.
Peregrin, there are ministers who are only capable of preaching what they’ve heard others preach. They “steal” their topics, Scriptural support, their outlines, even their illustrations from one another and lift them from books of sermon “helps.” What does God say?
“Therefore behold, ‘I am against the prophets,’ declares the LORD, ‘who steal My words from each other.’” (Jer. 23:30)
Peregrin, God gave believers the same authority he gave to Jesus. (“When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.” Matt 9:8) If Jesus is our example, then our preaching will resemble the preaching of Jesus.
“And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.” (Matt 7:28-29)
What was Jesus doing those thirty years or so before he began his recorded ministry? He was watching, listening, and studying. He could have done what any other bright young Jewish boy usually did, become a pharisee or a scribe.
But no, he went and “complicated” his ministry and his life, thought through the issues (yes, he used his brain — amazing!), questioned the examples of ministry he saw before him, and had a very brief but effective ministry.
Did Jesus “outsmart” himself? Well, his ministry ended up getting him killed. Maybe he did. Not.