Comments on: True Objectivity http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/13/true-objectivity/ A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship Mon, 13 Oct 2008 22:33:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: Christianto http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/13/true-objectivity/#comment-139870 Fri, 06 Jun 2008 16:05:53 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/13/true-objectivity/#comment-139870 Our believe must be based upon objective truth, that is the Bible, The Word of God. Yes, I agree. But, when I try to understand the metodology of "Charismatic Chaos" I found that Pastor John had laid the foundation of objective truth (a) not on the explicite statements of the Bible, but on historical proof of the operation of the gifts of the Spirit (in the post apostolic era); (b) not on the writers' explicite statements, but on the Bible readers' interpretation (e.g. the categories of the gifts of the Spirit and the categories of the miraculous era); (c) not on the 'authority of the Word of God', but on the birth/establishment of 'The Church'; (d) not on the free will of God, but on the free will of man (apostles), etc. By doing so, I hope I am wrong, Pastor John has directed the believers faith not on the objective truth, that is THe Bible and it's writers, but on his own interpretation. "Charismatic Chaos" is not speaking about objective truth, but 'objective' interpretation on truth and contemporary experiences/phenomenon. Pastor John said that objective truth never depent on the presence or absence of the experience. But when he establish 'objective truth' about the cessation of the gift of the Spirit, he used the absence of the phenomenon in the post apostolic church era, that is something 'beside' Scripture... Our believe must be based upon objective truth, that is the Bible, The Word of God. Yes, I agree.

But, when I try to understand the metodology of “Charismatic Chaos” I found that Pastor John had laid the foundation of objective truth (a) not on the explicite statements of the Bible, but on historical proof of the operation of the gifts of the Spirit (in the post apostolic era); (b) not on the writers’ explicite statements, but on the Bible readers’ interpretation (e.g. the categories of the gifts of the Spirit and the categories of the miraculous era); (c) not on the ‘authority of the Word of God’, but on the birth/establishment of ‘The Church’; (d) not on the free will of God, but on the free will of man (apostles), etc.

By doing so, I hope I am wrong, Pastor John has directed the believers faith not on the objective truth, that is THe Bible and it’s writers, but on his own interpretation. “Charismatic Chaos” is not speaking about objective truth, but ‘objective’ interpretation on truth and contemporary experiences/phenomenon.

Pastor John said that objective truth never depent on the presence or absence of the experience. But when he establish ‘objective truth’ about the cessation of the gift of the Spirit, he used the absence of the phenomenon in the post apostolic church era, that is something ‘beside’ Scripture…

]]> by: Tom F. http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/13/true-objectivity/#comment-132512 Fri, 16 May 2008 14:49:13 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/13/true-objectivity/#comment-132512 Man will always muddle things up. In a world wherein truth is denied, God will not be acknowledged. God is Truth. His Word is THE truth! Too many Christians and pastorates water down the truth in fear of loosing numbers and revenues; in fear of "offending" those around us. It's the little churches doing God's will according to His Word in "their" little corner of the world that is making an impact for the Kingdom, not the media or mega churches. A church must be relevant to the Word and at the same time relevant to the times. In the US today, there is so much depravity and debauchary, that the Word is more relevant now than ever before. But the church in America has failed miserably at making that point. Wake up my brother's and sisters in Christ. Make His point and not the agenda of the politically correct. Do not be distracted by issues and stay true to God's Word and execute the Great Commission. Gos has given us great opportunity to sow and to reap, to preach and to teach. There is a more abundant source of illustration of God's soveriegnty today than since the time of the parting of the Red Sea. Use this precious gift to preach His Word more boldly than ever before! Man will always muddle things up. In a world wherein truth is denied, God will not be acknowledged. God is Truth. His Word is THE truth! Too many Christians and pastorates water down the truth in fear of loosing numbers and revenues; in fear of “offending” those around us. It’s the little churches doing God’s will according to His Word in “their” little corner of the world that is making an impact for the Kingdom, not the media or mega churches. A church must be relevant to the Word and at the same time relevant to the times. In the US today, there is so much depravity and debauchary, that the Word is more relevant now than ever before. But the church in America has failed miserably at making that point. Wake up my brother’s and sisters in Christ. Make His point and not the agenda of the politically correct. Do not be distracted by issues and stay true to God’s Word and execute the Great Commission. Gos has given us great opportunity to sow and to reap, to preach and to teach. There is a more abundant source of illustration of God’s soveriegnty today than since the time of the parting of the Red Sea. Use this precious gift to preach His Word more boldly than ever before!

]]> by: William du Plooy http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/13/true-objectivity/#comment-131616 Wed, 14 May 2008 19:15:47 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/13/true-objectivity/#comment-131616 Truth is a bit like Gravity: When faced with an Airoplane with all engines failing... NOBODY denies that Gravity will have it's way with you; but you just really would like to think that the engines of the plane will save you... OR WILL THEY? Because you trust the people who made the Rolls Royce engines (Enough to get on the plane). But you just DO NOT like the Truth; that Gravity will have it's way with Human failure at 12 000ft and lead to eternal consequences... OK, so will positive thinking save us? Or should we make sure we have that Parachute which the air hostess offered freely to us; that Gift we laughed at at the departure lounge? Last questions? Where is that air hostess? And why did I trust the engines over the Parachute? I know that this alogory is NOT perfect... That is my point Humans are prone to sin and failure; BUT the GIFT of the Almighty is PERFECT, let us take Him by Faith and apply the Gift of Grace. Truth is a bit like Gravity:

When faced with an Airoplane with all engines failing…

NOBODY denies that Gravity will have it’s way with you; but you just really would like to think that the engines of the plane will save you… OR WILL THEY? Because you trust the people who made the Rolls Royce engines (Enough to get on the plane).

But you just DO NOT like the Truth; that Gravity will have it’s way with Human failure at 12 000ft and lead to eternal consequences…

OK, so will positive thinking save us? Or should we make sure we have that Parachute which the air hostess offered freely to us; that Gift we laughed at at the departure lounge?

Last questions? Where is that air hostess? And why did I trust the engines over the Parachute?

I know that this alogory is NOT perfect… That is my point Humans are prone to sin and failure; BUT the GIFT of the Almighty is PERFECT, let us take Him by Faith and apply the Gift of Grace.

]]> by: David http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/13/true-objectivity/#comment-131597 Wed, 14 May 2008 17:41:43 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/13/true-objectivity/#comment-131597 I found it necessary to leave my local church due the the subjective nature of the teaching of our new Pastor (follow your heart first, then double check yourself with the bible type of teaching). I found a new church that has a high view of scripture, and isn't afraid to include repentance in the proclamation of the Gospel. This post has encouraged me, thank you. David I found it necessary to leave my local church due the the subjective nature of the teaching of our new Pastor (follow your heart first, then double check yourself with the bible type of teaching). I found a new church that has a high view of scripture, and isn’t afraid to include repentance in the proclamation of the Gospel. This post has encouraged me, thank you.

David

]]> by: James http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/13/true-objectivity/#comment-131584 Wed, 14 May 2008 16:15:08 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/13/true-objectivity/#comment-131584 I am finding more and more that almost every truth issue that the Christian church faces comes back to the "did God really say?" question. I am finding more and more that almost every truth issue that the Christian church faces comes back to the “did God really say?” question.

]]> by: Truth Unites... and Divides http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/13/true-objectivity/#comment-131573 Wed, 14 May 2008 14:36:34 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/13/true-objectivity/#comment-131573 I agree. When I'm arguing with pro-Gay "Christians" I also use the words "absolute" and "transcendent and "Inspired" in addition to the adjective "objective" when describing Biblical Truth. I agree. When I’m arguing with pro-Gay “Christians” I also use the words “absolute” and “transcendent and “Inspired” in addition to the adjective “objective” when describing Biblical Truth.

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