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	<title>Comments on: The Latest Evangelical Manifesto</title>
	<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/</link>
	<description>A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 08:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Neil H</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-135286</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 04:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-135286</guid>
					<description>I know my previous post was a "rabbit trail" from the blog. I saw the quote and having heard it before by a "Fundamentalist" preacher, it caught my eye, and I just couldn't let it pass without comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know my previous post was a &#8220;rabbit trail&#8221; from the blog. I saw the quote and having heard it before by a &#8220;Fundamentalist&#8221; preacher, it caught my eye, and I just couldn&#8217;t let it pass without comment.
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		<title>by: Neil H</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-135285</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 03:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-135285</guid>
					<description>Earlier quote: "It is not possible to legislate morality. One may write laws, but forcing every last person to obey those laws is not practical. Therefore, the decision to be moral, to adhere to commonly-agreed-upon restrictions on human behavior, ultimately rests upon the condition of a person’s heart." 

This many believe to be a true statement. Yet, today, we have many laws forcing Christians to obey and thereby violate their own morals. There are no more commonly agreed-upon restrictions on human behavior. With the majority of people living with a huge vacuum in the heart, the only thing to fill it is the wickedness that is the world, that rules the world, and will ultimately bring destruction of the soul unless it is breached by the Christ of the Cross of Calvary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Earlier quote: &#8220;It is not possible to legislate morality. One may write laws, but forcing every last person to obey those laws is not practical. Therefore, the decision to be moral, to adhere to commonly-agreed-upon restrictions on human behavior, ultimately rests upon the condition of a person’s heart.&#8221; </p>
<p>This many believe to be a true statement. Yet, today, we have many laws forcing Christians to obey and thereby violate their own morals. There are no more commonly agreed-upon restrictions on human behavior. With the majority of people living with a huge vacuum in the heart, the only thing to fill it is the wickedness that is the world, that rules the world, and will ultimately bring destruction of the soul unless it is breached by the Christ of the Cross of Calvary.
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		<title>by: Jun M.</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-135163</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 06:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-135163</guid>
					<description>“…Sadly, we repeatedly fail to live up to our high calling, and all too often illustrate our own doctrine of sin. The full list of our failures is no secret to God or to many who watch us. If we would share the good news of Jesus with others, we must first be shaped by that good news ourselves.”
“…Today, however, enormous confusion surrounds Evangelicals in public life and we wish to clarify our stand through the following assertions:
First, we repudiate two equal and opposite errors into which many Christians have fallen. One error is to privatize faith, applying it to the personal and spiritual realm only. Such dualism falsely divorces the spiritual from the secular and causes faith to lose its integrity. 
The other error, made by both the religious left and the religious right, is to politicize faith, using faith to express essentially political points that have lost touch with biblical truth. That way faith loses its independence, Christians become the “useful idiots” for one political party or another, and the Christian faith becomes an ideology. Christian beliefs become the weapons of political factions.”

I believe the manifesto is a reaction to the recent scandals sorrounding personalities identified with the evangelical church, the public political activities of renowned church leaders, and the tendency of some local evangelical churches so stay away from political issues altogether.

The most recent scandal involving an evangelical personality is that of Ted Haggard, former president of National Evangelical Alliance. Haggard was implicated in drugs and gay sex scandal and has publicly admitted having committed "immorality." There's also the congressional investigation of tele-evangelists Creflo Dollar, Eddie Long, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer and Kenneth Copeland concerning their luxurious lifestyles and anomalies in the use of funds of their ministries.

The political face of the evangelical church represents division and extremism in the public eye. Pat Robertson, James Dobson and Jerry Falwell have taken on the persona of political kingmakers closely identified with right wing of the Republican Party. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, both Reverends, are known mostly for political activism and closely identified with the liberal Democratic Party. These are probably the persons being referred to in the Manifesto as the "useful idiots" of the political parties, whose Christian faith have become ideologies, and whose Christian beliefs have become weapons of political factions.    

The Manifesto criticizes as in error those Christians who "privatize faith, applying it to the personal and spiritual realm only" and states that "such dualism falsely divorces the spiritual from the secular and causes faith to lose its integrity." I'm sure there are Christians who privatize their faith and apply it to personal and spiritual realm only. I'm not sure though if such attitude necessarily divorces the spiritual from the secular or that such attitude causes faith to lose integrity. I think what really diminishes faith's integrity is our public church leaders' too much entanglement with the secular.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“…Sadly, we repeatedly fail to live up to our high calling, and all too often illustrate our own doctrine of sin. The full list of our failures is no secret to God or to many who watch us. If we would share the good news of Jesus with others, we must first be shaped by that good news ourselves.”<br />
“…Today, however, enormous confusion surrounds Evangelicals in public life and we wish to clarify our stand through the following assertions:<br />
First, we repudiate two equal and opposite errors into which many Christians have fallen. One error is to privatize faith, applying it to the personal and spiritual realm only. Such dualism falsely divorces the spiritual from the secular and causes faith to lose its integrity.<br />
The other error, made by both the religious left and the religious right, is to politicize faith, using faith to express essentially political points that have lost touch with biblical truth. That way faith loses its independence, Christians become the “useful idiots” for one political party or another, and the Christian faith becomes an ideology. Christian beliefs become the weapons of political factions.”</p>
<p>I believe the manifesto is a reaction to the recent scandals sorrounding personalities identified with the evangelical church, the public political activities of renowned church leaders, and the tendency of some local evangelical churches so stay away from political issues altogether.</p>
<p>The most recent scandal involving an evangelical personality is that of Ted Haggard, former president of National Evangelical Alliance. Haggard was implicated in drugs and gay sex scandal and has publicly admitted having committed &#8220;immorality.&#8221; There&#8217;s also the congressional investigation of tele-evangelists Creflo Dollar, Eddie Long, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer and Kenneth Copeland concerning their luxurious lifestyles and anomalies in the use of funds of their ministries.</p>
<p>The political face of the evangelical church represents division and extremism in the public eye. Pat Robertson, James Dobson and Jerry Falwell have taken on the persona of political kingmakers closely identified with right wing of the Republican Party. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, both Reverends, are known mostly for political activism and closely identified with the liberal Democratic Party. These are probably the persons being referred to in the Manifesto as the &#8220;useful idiots&#8221; of the political parties, whose Christian faith have become ideologies, and whose Christian beliefs have become weapons of political factions.    </p>
<p>The Manifesto criticizes as in error those Christians who &#8220;privatize faith, applying it to the personal and spiritual realm only&#8221; and states that &#8220;such dualism falsely divorces the spiritual from the secular and causes faith to lose its integrity.&#8221; I&#8217;m sure there are Christians who privatize their faith and apply it to personal and spiritual realm only. I&#8217;m not sure though if such attitude necessarily divorces the spiritual from the secular or that such attitude causes faith to lose integrity. I think what really diminishes faith&#8217;s integrity is our public church leaders&#8217; too much entanglement with the secular.
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		<title>by: Jesse Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-132589</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 22:50:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-132589</guid>
					<description>BobP,

Historically, there are differences between Evangelicals and Fundamentalists. Fundamentalists are marked by a separation from culture, a separation from denominations, inerrancy over inspiration, a negative view toward mass evangelism (crusades), premil/pretrib, and unwillingness to cooperate with theological liberals on social work. Evangelicals, historically, were more willing to influence the culture, work w/in denominations, view inspiration as more important that inerrancy, work with mass evangelism, tolerant of other eschatological views, and to work with liberals on social issues.

Neither word is perfect for today’s generation, as most people probably are like you—fundamentalist toward doctrine, but a sympathy toward an evangelical approach to working outside the church. I confess that Grace Community Church does not fit either mold well, and probably would not identify with either list. 

This is partially why I think this manifesto was written—to try and reclaim the word “Evangelical.”

This might be a topic for a future post though…

Jesse</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BobP,</p>
<p>Historically, there are differences between Evangelicals and Fundamentalists. Fundamentalists are marked by a separation from culture, a separation from denominations, inerrancy over inspiration, a negative view toward mass evangelism (crusades), premil/pretrib, and unwillingness to cooperate with theological liberals on social work. Evangelicals, historically, were more willing to influence the culture, work w/in denominations, view inspiration as more important that inerrancy, work with mass evangelism, tolerant of other eschatological views, and to work with liberals on social issues.</p>
<p>Neither word is perfect for today’s generation, as most people probably are like you—fundamentalist toward doctrine, but a sympathy toward an evangelical approach to working outside the church. I confess that Grace Community Church does not fit either mold well, and probably would not identify with either list. </p>
<p>This is partially why I think this manifesto was written—to try and reclaim the word “Evangelical.”</p>
<p>This might be a topic for a future post though…</p>
<p>Jesse
</p>
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		<title>by: BobP</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-132560</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 20:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-132560</guid>
					<description>I'm confused. I consider myself to be a Fundamentalist because I believe in the fundamental truth of the Bible. I consider myself to be an Evangelical because I do my best to obey the great commission and evangelize to others about the Good News. Where am I wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m confused. I consider myself to be a Fundamentalist because I believe in the fundamental truth of the Bible. I consider myself to be an Evangelical because I do my best to obey the great commission and evangelize to others about the Good News. Where am I wrong?
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		<title>by: Jesse Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-132503</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 14:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-132503</guid>
					<description>Bill,

The terms "Evangelical" and "Fundamentalists" took on a new meaning in the 20th century, especially as they relate to each other. The 20th century saw the terms define two different elements inside of Christianity. Prior to that though, the concept of what it means to be an Evangelical has been there. And I think the Manifesto's point is that  others, such as Wilberforce and Jay would have identified themselves with the essence of the Manifesto itself. In other words, they may not have called themselves "Evangelicals", but the did identify themselves with the beliefs that make a 20th century Evangelical.

Jesse</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill,</p>
<p>The terms &#8220;Evangelical&#8221; and &#8220;Fundamentalists&#8221; took on a new meaning in the 20th century, especially as they relate to each other. The 20th century saw the terms define two different elements inside of Christianity. Prior to that though, the concept of what it means to be an Evangelical has been there. And I think the Manifesto&#8217;s point is that  others, such as Wilberforce and Jay would have identified themselves with the essence of the Manifesto itself. In other words, they may not have called themselves &#8220;Evangelicals&#8221;, but the did identify themselves with the beliefs that make a 20th century Evangelical.</p>
<p>Jesse
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		<title>by: Jesse Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-132502</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 14:04:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-132502</guid>
					<description>Terry,

I have heard that objection from others, but I don't have it myself. It does not use the word "inerrancy" but my memory is that the concept was there. If you read it, let me know what you think.

Jesse</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terry,</p>
<p>I have heard that objection from others, but I don&#8217;t have it myself. It does not use the word &#8220;inerrancy&#8221; but my memory is that the concept was there. If you read it, let me know what you think.</p>
<p>Jesse
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		<title>by: Bill Toothman</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-132043</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 16:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-132043</guid>
					<description>"Second, we wish to reposition ourselves in public life. To be Evangelical is
to be faithful to the freedom, justice, peace, and well-being that are at the heart of the good news of Jesus. Fundamentalism was world-denying and politically disengaged at its outset, but Evangelicals have made a distinguished contribution to politics—attested by causes such the abolition of slavery and woman’s suffrage, and by names such as John Jay, John Witherspoon, Frances Willard, and Sojourner Truth in America and William Wilberforce and Lord Shaftesbury in England."  This quote is taken from the summary of the Manifesto.  Since when does the "Evangelicals" get to claim John Jay and William Wilberforce amongst them.  Correct me if I am wrong, but the terms "fundamentalist" and "Evangelical" did not come into their accepted meanings till the 20 century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Second, we wish to reposition ourselves in public life. To be Evangelical is<br />
to be faithful to the freedom, justice, peace, and well-being that are at the heart of the good news of Jesus. Fundamentalism was world-denying and politically disengaged at its outset, but Evangelicals have made a distinguished contribution to politics—attested by causes such the abolition of slavery and woman’s suffrage, and by names such as John Jay, John Witherspoon, Frances Willard, and Sojourner Truth in America and William Wilberforce and Lord Shaftesbury in England.&#8221;  This quote is taken from the summary of the Manifesto.  Since when does the &#8220;Evangelicals&#8221; get to claim John Jay and William Wilberforce amongst them.  Correct me if I am wrong, but the terms &#8220;fundamentalist&#8221; and &#8220;Evangelical&#8221; did not come into their accepted meanings till the 20 century.
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		<title>by: Caleb Kolstad</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-131627</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 20:27:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-131627</guid>
					<description>Jesse,

A wonderful and clear review!  Well thought through and well written.

Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesse,</p>
<p>A wonderful and clear review!  Well thought through and well written.</p>
<p>Thanks
</p>
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		<title>by: terry</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-131613</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 18:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/12/the-latest-evangelical-manifesto/#comment-131613</guid>
					<description>listening to moody radio out of chicago this morning and they were discussing it.  one person speaking about it stated that they felt that it deliberately sidestepped the claim to the inerrancy of scripture.  your thought….?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>listening to moody radio out of chicago this morning and they were discussing it.  one person speaking about it stated that they felt that it deliberately sidestepped the claim to the inerrancy of scripture.  your thought….?
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