<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: One Last Post on Genesis</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/</link>
	<description>A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:54:00 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Tom Metcalf</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/comment-page-1/#comment-141972</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Metcalf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:12:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/#comment-141972</guid>
		<description>Man&#039;s basic problem.  We care more about self and the creation than about how holy and awesome God is.  So to please self, we feel we must understand everything logically through our still fallen and weak perception of reality, though we still see through a mirror darkly.

Time has perplexed man through the ages.  But in believing God&#039;s Word, one thing for me is certain.  Time began &quot;In the beginning.&quot;  If it &quot;began&quot; &quot;In the beginning&quot;, then everything in Gen. 1:1-2 must be included in the first day.  A &quot;day&quot; is a measurement of time that we understand.  God gave us His Word for us to understand.  The &quot;day&quot; used in Genesis is defined in the text as &quot;the evening and the morning&quot; - the same understanding we have as the sun rising and setting - a literal 24 hour day.  If vv. 1 &amp; 2 are not included in day one, but they are included in the creation of time, then what is that measurement of time called if it is not included within the &quot;first day?&quot;

Besides including vv. 1 &amp; 2 in the first day, because all of time is a reality that can be measured, we must not forget how God connects Jesus Christ to &quot;the beginning.&quot;
John 1:1 - &quot;In the beginning was the Word...&quot;  We know how God created, He spoke it into existence ex nihilo.  We also have Christ Himself telling us in Rev. 1:8 -

    &quot;I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the
     ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which
     was, and which is to come, the Almighty.&quot;

Besides, and in addition to, &quot;In the beginning&quot; referring to the time element, I believe God is also telling us, from the start, that all things are in Christ.  He created all things.  Not only man, but angels, heaven, earth, and, yes, even time itself.  Creation is, simply put, God&#039;s revelation of His glory, and most especially in Christ, with He, that is Christ, being our God and Creator Himself.

Another reality that we must take into consideration is the affects that sin has had on all of creation (to one degree or another.  For man did die spiritually, immediately, afterall.)  We read about the ages that Adam and others lived to become before they physically died, and how that the average age has decreased since then.  We also see how quick we are to age.  What about the earth?  It too is part of creation, and we read in Romans 8:22,

       &quot;For we know that the whole creation
        groaneth and travaileth in pain together
        until now.&quot;

I must believe God&#039;s Word.  Sin has affected the whole creation.  The age of the earth is not what it seems.  Just as man does not live as long as those initially after the fall, I believe that all of creation has been affected by our sin, with an increased aging process.

Science, man&#039;s discovery, investigation, and study of things is a wonderful thing.  But we know that through the ages, our &quot;conclusions&quot; have to be changed many times.  I believe that what we perceive in our study of things is, in many ways, hindered by the reality of all  things not being as they are perceived to be because of the increased aging process caused from the curse of sin.  Not only has the aging process in this &quot;time&quot; been affected and increased, but our ability to understand how to compute properly has been affected.  While we still have many people who have the ability to think deeply in various ways, we do not understand how greatly we have been affected.  We can make atomic bombs - for what?

But one day, O praise God, one of these days, He, Christ, my Lord and my God, will make all things right!  &quot;Even so, come LORD Jesus!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man&#8217;s basic problem.  We care more about self and the creation than about how holy and awesome God is.  So to please self, we feel we must understand everything logically through our still fallen and weak perception of reality, though we still see through a mirror darkly.</p>
<p>Time has perplexed man through the ages.  But in believing God&#8217;s Word, one thing for me is certain.  Time began &#8220;In the beginning.&#8221;  If it &#8220;began&#8221; &#8220;In the beginning&#8221;, then everything in Gen. 1:1-2 must be included in the first day.  A &#8220;day&#8221; is a measurement of time that we understand.  God gave us His Word for us to understand.  The &#8220;day&#8221; used in Genesis is defined in the text as &#8220;the evening and the morning&#8221; &#8211; the same understanding we have as the sun rising and setting &#8211; a literal 24 hour day.  If vv. 1 &amp; 2 are not included in day one, but they are included in the creation of time, then what is that measurement of time called if it is not included within the &#8220;first day?&#8221;</p>
<p>Besides including vv. 1 &amp; 2 in the first day, because all of time is a reality that can be measured, we must not forget how God connects Jesus Christ to &#8220;the beginning.&#8221;<br />
John 1:1 &#8211; &#8220;In the beginning was the Word&#8230;&#8221;  We know how God created, He spoke it into existence ex nihilo.  We also have Christ Himself telling us in Rev. 1:8 -</p>
<p>    &#8220;I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the<br />
     ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which<br />
     was, and which is to come, the Almighty.&#8221;</p>
<p>Besides, and in addition to, &#8220;In the beginning&#8221; referring to the time element, I believe God is also telling us, from the start, that all things are in Christ.  He created all things.  Not only man, but angels, heaven, earth, and, yes, even time itself.  Creation is, simply put, God&#8217;s revelation of His glory, and most especially in Christ, with He, that is Christ, being our God and Creator Himself.</p>
<p>Another reality that we must take into consideration is the affects that sin has had on all of creation (to one degree or another.  For man did die spiritually, immediately, afterall.)  We read about the ages that Adam and others lived to become before they physically died, and how that the average age has decreased since then.  We also see how quick we are to age.  What about the earth?  It too is part of creation, and we read in Romans 8:22,</p>
<p>       &#8220;For we know that the whole creation<br />
        groaneth and travaileth in pain together<br />
        until now.&#8221;</p>
<p>I must believe God&#8217;s Word.  Sin has affected the whole creation.  The age of the earth is not what it seems.  Just as man does not live as long as those initially after the fall, I believe that all of creation has been affected by our sin, with an increased aging process.</p>
<p>Science, man&#8217;s discovery, investigation, and study of things is a wonderful thing.  But we know that through the ages, our &#8220;conclusions&#8221; have to be changed many times.  I believe that what we perceive in our study of things is, in many ways, hindered by the reality of all  things not being as they are perceived to be because of the increased aging process caused from the curse of sin.  Not only has the aging process in this &#8220;time&#8221; been affected and increased, but our ability to understand how to compute properly has been affected.  While we still have many people who have the ability to think deeply in various ways, we do not understand how greatly we have been affected.  We can make atomic bombs &#8211; for what?</p>
<p>But one day, O praise God, one of these days, He, Christ, my Lord and my God, will make all things right!  &#8220;Even so, come LORD Jesus!&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/comment-page-1/#comment-135045</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 19:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/#comment-135045</guid>
		<description>I am also disturbed by MacArthur&#039;s somewhat &quot;let&#039;s not take science too seriously&quot; tone in some discussions -- I have tremendous respect for Mr. MacArthur, but disagree with his dogmatism on certain counts.  I am disturbed by the movement of many Christians to simply dismiss science as &quot;biased&quot; or &quot;silly&quot; or &quot;continually changing&quot;, to say that &quot;the only valid science is that which agrees with me&quot;.  Berean has wonderfully reminded us of Romans 1:20 -- God created, by whatever means, and the point of the matter is that all creation proclaims His existence.  Be it 10,000 years or billions of years, all creation extols God&#039;s glory!  We should be absolutely EXCITED about this, yet there are those who go running into their closets and point fingers at people who do not agree with their own interpretations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am also disturbed by MacArthur&#8217;s somewhat &#8220;let&#8217;s not take science too seriously&#8221; tone in some discussions &#8212; I have tremendous respect for Mr. MacArthur, but disagree with his dogmatism on certain counts.  I am disturbed by the movement of many Christians to simply dismiss science as &#8220;biased&#8221; or &#8220;silly&#8221; or &#8220;continually changing&#8221;, to say that &#8220;the only valid science is that which agrees with me&#8221;.  Berean has wonderfully reminded us of Romans 1:20 &#8212; God created, by whatever means, and the point of the matter is that all creation proclaims His existence.  Be it 10,000 years or billions of years, all creation extols God&#8217;s glory!  We should be absolutely EXCITED about this, yet there are those who go running into their closets and point fingers at people who do not agree with their own interpretations.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Berean</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/comment-page-1/#comment-132379</link>
		<dc:creator>Berean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 04:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/#comment-132379</guid>
		<description>With all due respect, the bias&#039; of individual scientists in the scientific community will only carry you so far toward a young earth/universe. For example, the age of the universe has been measured to be 13.7 ± 0.13 billion years by the WMAP satellite, which looks for faint variations in the background microwave radiation produced at the dawn of the big bang. Whatever your views are of the big bang, its discovery along with evidence that the universe is accelerating in its expansion have caused significant consternation in the scientific community. Many atheistic and agnostic scientists are extremely uncomfortable with these discoveries, because they imply a first cause that existed outside of space-time that, in essence, created space-time itself. And that sounds a lot like “ex nihilo”.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With all due respect, the bias&#8217; of individual scientists in the scientific community will only carry you so far toward a young earth/universe. For example, the age of the universe has been measured to be 13.7 ± 0.13 billion years by the WMAP satellite, which looks for faint variations in the background microwave radiation produced at the dawn of the big bang. Whatever your views are of the big bang, its discovery along with evidence that the universe is accelerating in its expansion have caused significant consternation in the scientific community. Many atheistic and agnostic scientists are extremely uncomfortable with these discoveries, because they imply a first cause that existed outside of space-time that, in essence, created space-time itself. And that sounds a lot like “ex nihilo”.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dirk Wageman</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/comment-page-1/#comment-132369</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk Wageman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 04:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/#comment-132369</guid>
		<description>Brothers,
It is important to realize the suppositional biases of the &quot;scientist&quot; in regards to the age of the earth. While many say that science is neutral, the fact is that the men who interpret the data are not. The methods that are quoted as absolutes, if investigated further, are based upon assumptions that do not take into account factors that can disrupt the process, thus rendering the ages given to be absolutely out of line with the actuals. When pursued further, one will find that most of these assumptions are based on circular reasoning.  We all have been influenced in some way to interpret the data we see. The question is one of authority. God has clearly spoken and it takes a lot of twisting to miss His point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brothers,<br />
It is important to realize the suppositional biases of the &#8220;scientist&#8221; in regards to the age of the earth. While many say that science is neutral, the fact is that the men who interpret the data are not. The methods that are quoted as absolutes, if investigated further, are based upon assumptions that do not take into account factors that can disrupt the process, thus rendering the ages given to be absolutely out of line with the actuals. When pursued further, one will find that most of these assumptions are based on circular reasoning.  We all have been influenced in some way to interpret the data we see. The question is one of authority. God has clearly spoken and it takes a lot of twisting to miss His point.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Berean</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/comment-page-1/#comment-131598</link>
		<dc:creator>Berean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 17:46:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/#comment-131598</guid>
		<description>Suppose that the young earth explanation of creation is correct. While making many old earth theological issues moot, it would seem that this stance creates serious problems with respect to God&#039;s character.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.&quot; Rom 1:20 ESV&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Modern science is pretty certain that the earth/universe is old, based on multiple unrelated disciplines. Note that this is irrespective of the evolution vs. creation debate. What does it say about God&#039;s character to create a young earth when most scientific evidence points to an old earth/universe? Is it within God&#039;s divine nature to deceive Man?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suppose that the young earth explanation of creation is correct. While making many old earth theological issues moot, it would seem that this stance creates serious problems with respect to God&#8217;s character.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made.&#8221; Rom 1:20 ESV</p></blockquote>
<p>Modern science is pretty certain that the earth/universe is old, based on multiple unrelated disciplines. Note that this is irrespective of the evolution vs. creation debate. What does it say about God&#8217;s character to create a young earth when most scientific evidence points to an old earth/universe? Is it within God&#8217;s divine nature to deceive Man?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/comment-page-1/#comment-131506</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 23:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/#comment-131506</guid>
		<description>I greatly admire many of John MacArthur&#039;s books. In fact, I just got done reading one if them. When he shares on something I usually take the time to listen intently, but reading his opinions on different scientific things has startled me. I will have do disagree with him on this. If God truly created the Universe, then shouldn&#039;t the discoveries that we make about it be accurate? He did give us a mind too. I&#039;ve studied the claim that thermodynamics prohibits evolution (and I am not saying that evolution is true, I am saying that this is a bad argument that is easily shot down by evolutionists), and it doesn&#039;t have a case. It certainly prohibits things getting more complex in a closed system, but the Earth&#039;s system is not closed. The Earth is constantly bombarded by rays from the Sun and other stars. It is constantly having energy poured into it. It periodically passes through comet dust (meteor showers). The Earth is definitely not a closed system. We should not be using this argument to beat evolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I greatly admire many of John MacArthur&#8217;s books. In fact, I just got done reading one if them. When he shares on something I usually take the time to listen intently, but reading his opinions on different scientific things has startled me. I will have do disagree with him on this. If God truly created the Universe, then shouldn&#8217;t the discoveries that we make about it be accurate? He did give us a mind too. I&#8217;ve studied the claim that thermodynamics prohibits evolution (and I am not saying that evolution is true, I am saying that this is a bad argument that is easily shot down by evolutionists), and it doesn&#8217;t have a case. It certainly prohibits things getting more complex in a closed system, but the Earth&#8217;s system is not closed. The Earth is constantly bombarded by rays from the Sun and other stars. It is constantly having energy poured into it. It periodically passes through comet dust (meteor showers). The Earth is definitely not a closed system. We should not be using this argument to beat evolution.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/comment-page-1/#comment-130941</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 23:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/#comment-130941</guid>
		<description>One additional thought ...

I do not agree with MacArthur that one cannot separate Genesis 1 as allegorical and treat the rest of Genesis (or Scripture) as literal. Scripture uses many different literary forms throughout (God is not a chicken, nor is He a U.F.O.). There is a reasonable break between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 to where a literal, historical transition can certainly be made without question. Besides, one&#039;s interpretation of the creation account does not change the FACT of that account, it simply means that we may not fully understand it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One additional thought &#8230;</p>
<p>I do not agree with MacArthur that one cannot separate Genesis 1 as allegorical and treat the rest of Genesis (or Scripture) as literal. Scripture uses many different literary forms throughout (God is not a chicken, nor is He a U.F.O.). There is a reasonable break between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 to where a literal, historical transition can certainly be made without question. Besides, one&#8217;s interpretation of the creation account does not change the FACT of that account, it simply means that we may not fully understand it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/comment-page-1/#comment-130937</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 22:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/#comment-130937</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s funny how many Believers &quot;live and die&quot; with their interpretation of Genesis 1. They are so wound up, that they are willing to outrightly dismiss any scientific evidence that contradicts their own interpretation. They attempt to dismiss science as led by a bunch of atheists who are just trying to convert all of us -- please, let&#039;s be fair and big enough to not try to persuade by adhominem and baseless attacks. Every field of study (including theology) has its share of nutcases ... it doesn&#039;t automatically translate into their status as atheists who are out to change the world.

The fact of the matter is that God is Lord of BOTH Scripture AND science! They absolutely do NOT contradict each other (because God is Lord of ALL) -- we may not understand HOW they work together, but the important point is that they DO work together. The facts of geology, chemistry, and astronomy give fairly clear evidence that as far as TIME is concerned, we&#039;ve been through a lot. The phrasing of the creation account in Genesis 1, however, appears to be fairly convincing towards a 24-hour (solar) day ... except for the fact that TIME AND SEASONS as we are currently familiar with didn&#039;t begin formal operation until the 4th day. The point I am making is that Believers who get all hung up on the time element are missing the important picture, and the most important argument to defend at all costs. These are that (1) GOD is the one who created everything, (2) That all things were created according to their own kind, (3) That all created things were &quot;good&quot;, and that (4) Man is God&#039;s special creation, created in His very image. I submit that the PROCESS (the HOW of the matter) is not NEARLY as important as the RESULT (the WHAT of the matter).

The FACTS of science are absolutely neutral (otherwise the movie &quot;Expelled&quot; would have no basis), although there are many who try to convince us that the facts MEAN something different. Holding an &quot;old earth&quot; position does not automatically translate into adherance to evolutionary theory, though MacArthur&#039;s commentary leads one to believe this. It also doesn&#039;t mean that public school kids are &quot;being indoctrinated&quot; -- come on, let&#039;s be honest and stop slinging mud. You can point out bad apples, and I can point out numerous examples of teachers and curricula that simply teach the matters of scientific findings in terms of how we understand them. Science is CREATED by God and we do not need to be afraid of it, or to label it &quot;atheistic&quot; ... we simply (humbly) need to admit that we do not fully understand the HOWs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s funny how many Believers &#8220;live and die&#8221; with their interpretation of Genesis 1. They are so wound up, that they are willing to outrightly dismiss any scientific evidence that contradicts their own interpretation. They attempt to dismiss science as led by a bunch of atheists who are just trying to convert all of us &#8212; please, let&#8217;s be fair and big enough to not try to persuade by adhominem and baseless attacks. Every field of study (including theology) has its share of nutcases &#8230; it doesn&#8217;t automatically translate into their status as atheists who are out to change the world.</p>
<p>The fact of the matter is that God is Lord of BOTH Scripture AND science! They absolutely do NOT contradict each other (because God is Lord of ALL) &#8212; we may not understand HOW they work together, but the important point is that they DO work together. The facts of geology, chemistry, and astronomy give fairly clear evidence that as far as TIME is concerned, we&#8217;ve been through a lot. The phrasing of the creation account in Genesis 1, however, appears to be fairly convincing towards a 24-hour (solar) day &#8230; except for the fact that TIME AND SEASONS as we are currently familiar with didn&#8217;t begin formal operation until the 4th day. The point I am making is that Believers who get all hung up on the time element are missing the important picture, and the most important argument to defend at all costs. These are that (1) GOD is the one who created everything, (2) That all things were created according to their own kind, (3) That all created things were &#8220;good&#8221;, and that (4) Man is God&#8217;s special creation, created in His very image. I submit that the PROCESS (the HOW of the matter) is not NEARLY as important as the RESULT (the WHAT of the matter).</p>
<p>The FACTS of science are absolutely neutral (otherwise the movie &#8220;Expelled&#8221; would have no basis), although there are many who try to convince us that the facts MEAN something different. Holding an &#8220;old earth&#8221; position does not automatically translate into adherance to evolutionary theory, though MacArthur&#8217;s commentary leads one to believe this. It also doesn&#8217;t mean that public school kids are &#8220;being indoctrinated&#8221; &#8212; come on, let&#8217;s be honest and stop slinging mud. You can point out bad apples, and I can point out numerous examples of teachers and curricula that simply teach the matters of scientific findings in terms of how we understand them. Science is CREATED by God and we do not need to be afraid of it, or to label it &#8220;atheistic&#8221; &#8230; we simply (humbly) need to admit that we do not fully understand the HOWs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard P</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/comment-page-1/#comment-130745</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 19:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/#comment-130745</guid>
		<description>&lt;/i&gt;Sorry about the italics thing.  I don&#039;t know what is going on.  Hopefully you can figure out where the quotes are in my post that I am responding to.  They &lt;i&gt;were&lt;/i&gt; supposed to be in italics. I started this post with the symbol to turn italics off.  I won&#039;t know if that worked until I post this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about the italics thing.  I don&#8217;t know what is going on.  Hopefully you can figure out where the quotes are in my post that I am responding to.  They <i>were</i> supposed to be in italics. I started this post with the symbol to turn italics off.  I won&#8217;t know if that worked until I post this.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard P</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/comment-page-1/#comment-130744</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 19:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/05/06/one-last-post-on-genesis/#comment-130744</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;There are things discovered that are not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, but everything truly discovered must be in accord with what is in Scripture.&lt;/i&gt;

If by &lt;i&gt;in accord you mean consistent with the proclamation that one God created all things, then yes.  But if you mean that everything discovered on the earth or in the universe was created within the 6 days of Genesis, then you are on shaky ground.  The Bible only speaks to what is required of us, we who exist in the creation described in Genesis.  The Bible does not tell us explicitly that this current creation is the only thing ever created by God.  And it does not make sense to think that God would put information in the Bible that does not directly pertain to us.  Thus, there would be no need to include information in the Bible about other creations &lt;i&gt;and any requirements God placed on these creations&lt;/i&gt;.  And thus, it is at least conceivable that scientists could discover evidence of God&#039;s activity that is nowhere described in the Bible.

&lt;i&gt;The age of the earth is included in what God wanted to tell us… because it’s right there in the pages.&lt;/i&gt;

No.  The age of &lt;i&gt;this current creation&lt;/i&gt; might be right there in the pages (although reasonable men disagree on whether the geneology method can be trusted).  But there is nothing there that directly speaks to the age of this earth or the universe.  The Bible does not tell us when &quot;In the beginning&quot; was, other than that it was in the beginning.  The Bible does not tell us how long the earth was without form and void.  What it does say is that God spent six days turning that &quot;without form and void&quot; into what we have today - this current creation.

This current creation reasonably and logically starts with the first &quot;And God said ...&quot;.  The statement which comes immediately before, &lt;i&gt;And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters&lt;/i&gt;, could belong to the indeterminate period of time that the earth was without form, and void. Or it could mark the beginning of this current creation, the movement by God that led to &quot;And God said ...&quot;.

Note that there is a clear beginning to when the second day started.  It began right after the end of the first day.  So we can be absolutely certain what God did on the second and subsequent days - He did all activities described between the end of the previous day and the end of the current day.  But there is no such definitive beginning of the first day given.  Therefore, it is merely speculation to state when that first day began and what activities of God were included in that first day. 

Note also that &quot;In the beginning&quot; &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; refer to the start of this current creation, 6,000 years ago.  But there is nothing in the Bible that absolutely ties it to that interpretation.  And to accept that interpretation, one would have to accept that God has existed for an eternity, but created nothing until 6,000 years ago.  Perhaps that &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; true, and one day we will no doubt find out if it is.  But I can accept the idea that the Bible tells me &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; what God wants me to know about this current creation and my obligations to God.  In this current creation (regardless of when it began), God made man in His image, man sinned and became alienated from God, God implemented His plan of redemption and reconciliation.  All this happened &lt;i&gt;in this current creation&lt;/i&gt;, as described in the Bible.  Why would your faith in what God says in the Bible about this current creation be shaken if it were true that God has done, and maybe is currently doing, other things elsewhere that we know nothing about - things that are not part of the creation story in Genesis that is told after the &quot;In the beginning&quot; part?

&lt;i&gt;You look at it and say, “God didn’t want to tell us how, just what.” I look at it and say, “God told us both how and what.”&lt;/i&gt;

No.  God did not tell us &lt;i&gt;how&lt;/i&gt; at the level of atoms and molecules.  Genesis tells us that all things were created by God, either through His command or through His direct action (Adam and Eve).  We have no information how that came about at the levels of atoms and molecules.  So we cannot say with certainty that God &lt;i&gt;did not&lt;/i&gt; create processes first and then use those processes to create life.  It is obvious that creation is still ongoing (flowers and apples and types of dogs and horses which exist today that did not exist at the time of Adam and Eve).  This suggests that God created through processes (&quot;let the earth bring forth ...), and that part of creation is still going on today.  And there is a reasonable argument to be made that this earth and the universe is older than 6,000 years.  But that in no way means that the story of this current creation, beginning with the first &quot;And God said&quot;, is older than 6,000 years.  The early church fathers made no mention of the Gap theory?  They also made no mention of atoms and genes and chromosomes!  Failing to mention them does not mean none of these things existed then.  Only that they were unrecognized.  Darwin&#039;s theories would have undoubtedly been different had he known about genes and chromosomes and how they work.  He failed to recognize an alternative explanation for what he observed simply because he did not know about genes and chromosomes.  A fact of life is this:  Our interpretation of things changes as our knowledge increases about how life operates.

We, the children of Adam and Eve, are called to honor God&#039;s claim on us that He has outlined in the word He gave to us - the Bible.  This is a truth that exists for us.  If God made other things at other times and other places, whatever requirements He may have placed on those other creations has absolutely no bearing on what God requires from us.  Only what God has said to us and about us in the Bible has any bearing on us.  That truth remains constant, no matter what else God has done or has not done.  Why, then, should it threaten your faith if it were true that God has created other things in other times and other places?  That wouldn&#039;t change the truth of God&#039;s word to you as revealed in the Bible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>There are things discovered that are not explicitly mentioned in the Bible, but everything truly discovered must be in accord with what is in Scripture.</i></p>
<p>If by <i>in accord you mean consistent with the proclamation that one God created all things, then yes.  But if you mean that everything discovered on the earth or in the universe was created within the 6 days of Genesis, then you are on shaky ground.  The Bible only speaks to what is required of us, we who exist in the creation described in Genesis.  The Bible does not tell us explicitly that this current creation is the only thing ever created by God.  And it does not make sense to think that God would put information in the Bible that does not directly pertain to us.  Thus, there would be no need to include information in the Bible about other creations </i><i>and any requirements God placed on these creations</i>.  And thus, it is at least conceivable that scientists could discover evidence of God&#8217;s activity that is nowhere described in the Bible.</p>
<p><i>The age of the earth is included in what God wanted to tell us… because it’s right there in the pages.</i></p>
<p>No.  The age of <i>this current creation</i> might be right there in the pages (although reasonable men disagree on whether the geneology method can be trusted).  But there is nothing there that directly speaks to the age of this earth or the universe.  The Bible does not tell us when &#8220;In the beginning&#8221; was, other than that it was in the beginning.  The Bible does not tell us how long the earth was without form and void.  What it does say is that God spent six days turning that &#8220;without form and void&#8221; into what we have today &#8211; this current creation.</p>
<p>This current creation reasonably and logically starts with the first &#8220;And God said &#8230;&#8221;.  The statement which comes immediately before, <i>And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters</i>, could belong to the indeterminate period of time that the earth was without form, and void. Or it could mark the beginning of this current creation, the movement by God that led to &#8220;And God said &#8230;&#8221;.</p>
<p>Note that there is a clear beginning to when the second day started.  It began right after the end of the first day.  So we can be absolutely certain what God did on the second and subsequent days &#8211; He did all activities described between the end of the previous day and the end of the current day.  But there is no such definitive beginning of the first day given.  Therefore, it is merely speculation to state when that first day began and what activities of God were included in that first day. </p>
<p>Note also that &#8220;In the beginning&#8221; <i>could</i> refer to the start of this current creation, 6,000 years ago.  But there is nothing in the Bible that absolutely ties it to that interpretation.  And to accept that interpretation, one would have to accept that God has existed for an eternity, but created nothing until 6,000 years ago.  Perhaps that <i>is</i> true, and one day we will no doubt find out if it is.  But I can accept the idea that the Bible tells me <i>only</i> what God wants me to know about this current creation and my obligations to God.  In this current creation (regardless of when it began), God made man in His image, man sinned and became alienated from God, God implemented His plan of redemption and reconciliation.  All this happened <i>in this current creation</i>, as described in the Bible.  Why would your faith in what God says in the Bible about this current creation be shaken if it were true that God has done, and maybe is currently doing, other things elsewhere that we know nothing about &#8211; things that are not part of the creation story in Genesis that is told after the &#8220;In the beginning&#8221; part?</p>
<p><i>You look at it and say, “God didn’t want to tell us how, just what.” I look at it and say, “God told us both how and what.”</i></p>
<p>No.  God did not tell us <i>how</i> at the level of atoms and molecules.  Genesis tells us that all things were created by God, either through His command or through His direct action (Adam and Eve).  We have no information how that came about at the levels of atoms and molecules.  So we cannot say with certainty that God <i>did not</i> create processes first and then use those processes to create life.  It is obvious that creation is still ongoing (flowers and apples and types of dogs and horses which exist today that did not exist at the time of Adam and Eve).  This suggests that God created through processes (&#8220;let the earth bring forth &#8230;), and that part of creation is still going on today.  And there is a reasonable argument to be made that this earth and the universe is older than 6,000 years.  But that in no way means that the story of this current creation, beginning with the first &#8220;And God said&#8221;, is older than 6,000 years.  The early church fathers made no mention of the Gap theory?  They also made no mention of atoms and genes and chromosomes!  Failing to mention them does not mean none of these things existed then.  Only that they were unrecognized.  Darwin&#8217;s theories would have undoubtedly been different had he known about genes and chromosomes and how they work.  He failed to recognize an alternative explanation for what he observed simply because he did not know about genes and chromosomes.  A fact of life is this:  Our interpretation of things changes as our knowledge increases about how life operates.</p>
<p>We, the children of Adam and Eve, are called to honor God&#8217;s claim on us that He has outlined in the word He gave to us &#8211; the Bible.  This is a truth that exists for us.  If God made other things at other times and other places, whatever requirements He may have placed on those other creations has absolutely no bearing on what God requires from us.  Only what God has said to us and about us in the Bible has any bearing on us.  That truth remains constant, no matter what else God has done or has not done.  Why, then, should it threaten your faith if it were true that God has created other things in other times and other places?  That wouldn&#8217;t change the truth of God&#8217;s word to you as revealed in the Bible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
