Pulpit Magazine

Posted in Ethics, Hermeneutics |

12 Responses to “Appealing to the Law (Part 1)”

1. on 25 Feb 2008 at 1:38 am   Steve Scott

   Nathan,

   Just to note, the Mosaic Law and the Pentateuch are not equivalent. The first fifteen references are Scripture that are part of the Pentateuch but not the Mosaic Law. (You alluded to this at the top of the article.) Also, one of the things I’ve struggled with is the “relation” we have to the Law. We are not “under” the law, but is the same as saying that the law no longer applies to us? Are we no longer under the law but now beside it, because when we received faith, we can now implement the law in our lives in the form of the good works that God foreordained that we should walk in? Does this make sense?

   If the Law is a tutor to bring us to Christ, does the Law cease when we receive faith? If we graduate from a school, do we not then apply all of what we learned every day of our career? Jesus said that He did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill. If you look up the meaning of the word fulfill, it means to put into affect or to accomplish it to the fullest extent, to convert into reality, to develop the full potentialities of. So, didn’t Jesus make the Law go out into the whole world for the rest of the existence of the kingdom in order to accomplish its purpose? If we get a traffic ticket and go to court to pay the fine, does the judge cancel our ticket? or does the judge cancel the entire vehicle code? Just some questions and thinking out loud.

2. on 25 Feb 2008 at 5:00 am   eric

   Well spoken. The new law came, but lots of Christians, and certainly Jews and Islamics, are still trapped in an old-law mentality:

   http://adventistsnotcult.blogspot.com/2008/02/when-new-law-came.html

3. on 25 Feb 2008 at 5:07 am   Lisa

   Thank you for the series - and the reference chart!

4. on 25 Feb 2008 at 5:21 am   William du Plooy

   Dear brother Nathan and Steve,

   I think that the above references to the Tahnakh and in particular the Torah is just wonderful. It is to me a real evidence for the relation of Spiritual Israel of all ages, both among believers in the National Israel and in the Church (Comprising of National and Gentile Israel - Gal 3:28).

   Romans 9:6
   “But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel”

   Steve excellent comment thread! Some very good explanitory observations and questions!

   I have been listening to the Masters Seminary Chapels concerning NCT and it blows me away that they want to do away with Believing Spiritual Israel of old (Prior to the first coming of Messiah). That to me is a very dangerous theology which contradicts Scripture:

   Romans 4:9
   “Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness.”

   Galatians 3:28
   “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

   Romans 4:13
   “For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.”

   (I believe Nathan is in the process of exposing this Scripture, so I will not spoil his work here)

   Hebrews 11:7
   “By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.”

   (In fact the whole of Hebrews 11 point to a Believing - Faithful - Hebrew people; Spiritual Israel)

   Romans 4:16
   “Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all”

   (Again here we can clearly see Paul attesting to the fact that we have always and will only be saved by GRACE through FAITH, again my understanding says in lieu of Romans 9-11, we are grafted INTO Spirtual Israel the Root of David, Messiah Yeshua - Jesus our LORD.)

   Galatians 3:7
   “Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.”

   Galatians 3:8
   “And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.””

   (So the Law it seems to me NEVER Saved anyone, but is a standard which God applies to Believers; wherby we shine forth His glory to an unbelieving world and when we apply the Law to our lives - Not under bondage to the Law, but in Liberty- We do inherit Spiritual and Physical blessings from our LORD. Thus we can bring Glory and Honor to Him who the Law reflects the very Charecter of, our LORD God Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit).

   I hope that my understanding does not upset anyone, but I must admit that I am not a supercessionist and I hold firm to the Root of my Faith hwich has been delivered through Messiah. Yet, I am NOT under the yokke of Bondage to the Law, but as previously stated, it is my delight to learn more and apply more the Law of Righteousness by Grace. I believe in an eternal singular method of salvation - By Grace alone through Faith alone and I hope this is substantiated by the above Scriptures.

   But I MUST also emphasise that Romans 14 applies to me in the area of applying grace to mey brethren who are mostly Covenant Theology brethren. I do appreciate their Fear for the LORD and therefore I cannt ever condemn them for it, as they Fear Him as unto Him. Yet for the New Covenant Theologians… may I just remind those berthren to tread very carefully regarding the Law of Christ and the Law of the LORD:

   Jude 1:4
   “For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into LEWDNESS and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.”

   Romans 7:7-8:1

   “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? CERTAINLY NOT! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. THEREFORE THE LAW IS HOLY, AND THE COMMANDMENT HOLY and JUST and GOOD.

   Has then what is good become death to me? CERTAINLY NOT! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through WHAT IS GOOD, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I AGREE WITH THE LAW THAT IT IS GOOD. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
   I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I DELIGHT in the LAW OF GOD according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
   So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

   Romans 8

   There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are IN Christ Jesus, who DO NOT walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.”

5. on 25 Feb 2008 at 7:59 am   Pat

   I am not a theologian in the strict sense, and Im not advocating a defeatest attitude nor mocking those worthy students of the Word and their benefit to the Church of God, But, Is it not enough to believe,think,and say, we who believe live not IN sin, when we do sin we AGREE with the LAW and repent living lives that please Him and turn from our ways LOVING Gods LAW empowered by Him to conquer sin in our lives by NOT sinning and repenting when we do, So whether the compartmentalizing of “the LAW” is Biblical or not and the Decalogue (10commandments) has a “special” place or not really matters little because again whether we say the Law IS for christians or we say the christians are not UNDER the Law both would agree we KEEP the commandments of God, AGREE they are right, we repent when we lie,cheat,steal,covet etc ALSO in view of ISRAEL the nation does it really matter if we KNOW the promises are for the nation or the church has “replaced” the nation, or true believers are spiritual Israel and has always been, or Jesus fulfilled ALL the promises in the OT, or the church replaces Israel but GOD will still bring the Jews to an “awakening” in faith, or the KINGDOM is not spiritual but physical and literal or vice-versa?
   My point is this the Jews in the Gospels were waiting for the Messiah the godly ones like Simeon,Anna in the temple Nathan the Jew with no hypocrisy were waiting for the “FULFILLMENT” of God’s promises but NONE of them fully understood the Messiah as prince as suffering servant and yet as Son of God! we have been deabting these things since the Lord’s ascent we surely must see we are being kept humble not knowing ALL His details what matters is we be like the Godly ones of old in waiting and watching not for the fulfillment of our theology but waiting and watching FOR HIM!

6. on 25 Feb 2008 at 9:44 am   Winston

   Pat,

   If I understood you correctly this discussion goes deeper than you think . Our relationship to the Law determines what God’s commandments are for the chruch. You said both sides agree that we keep the Law. Yet, both sides do not agree. Examples -Should we keep the Sabbath? Can we eat pork? Should we celebrate the Old Testament feasts? The relationship of the New Testament church to the Law is very imprtant and worth considerable study.

7. on 25 Feb 2008 at 10:28 am   Pat

   Winston, agreed but I took for granted in my comment most would assume I meant specifically the Decalogue in my saying “LAW” For whether Dispensational,Covenantal, and NCT all are agreed as to the “ceremonial” “civil” aspects that you quote of the Law that they are not binding on the church.

8. on 25 Feb 2008 at 10:34 am   William du Plooy

   I am in similar mind to Winston.
   Yet, as I grow in the knowledge of the LORD and in Faith to Him, it seems to me that the Paradoxes of Scriptural Beliefs/Doctrine are growing more and more intimate and wonderful.

   Pat,
   I should think that your above observation and questioning would matter VERY MUCH to my brethren in Jerusalem who have received the Spirit of the LORD through faith in Messiah. Even more importantly it will matter very greatly to ANYONE in the Relions of “Human Works unto Salvation” such as for instance is advocated by Islam and Romanism. Also we need to consider the dangers that assailed the Church in Corinth: Lewdness and sexual immorality where some of the greatly tolerrated sins for which they where Convicted and Reproofed,BECAUSE they used the GRACE of God to seek opportunity for sin:

   1 Corinthians 8:9
   “But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak.”

   Galatians 5:1
   “Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.”

   Galatians 5:13
   “For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.”

   1 Peter 2:16
   “…as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.”

   The Law of God should not be treated as some Ogure or vile thing; it is beautiful and sets forth the Charecter and Will of the LORD our God, yet NO MAN can attain unto it; but Christ Jesus. So where He has come to fulfill the LAw it does not mean to say that we seek reason NOT to be a part of the Law, but that where we fail in DOING HIS WILL and loving Him, Christ has completed that in the LAw which we are unable to COMPLETE. We are to SEEK the Fulfillment of the WILL of God, but we are not under BONDAGE to IT, we are willingly offering our lives as a sacrifice, knowing the true value of the GRACE by which we have been bought UNTO NEWNESS of LIFE.

9. on 25 Feb 2008 at 12:47 pm   donsands

   Look forward to your study.

   “For you are not come unto the Mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, …. But you are come unto the Mount Zion and unto the city of the Living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, … to Jesus the mediator of the New Covenant.”

10. on 25 Feb 2008 at 8:56 pm   Dustin S. Segers

    Hi Nathan,

    New Covenant Theologian Mike Adams is doing a friendly preliminary critique of the Fall ‘07 edition of the TMSJ here: http://idsblog.com/?p=107

    Thanks for continuing the discussion regarding the Law. It is very interesting and thought provoking. God bless!

11. on 02 Mar 2008 at 1:30 am   Josh

    Just a quick correction. You stated that, “Paul cites the fourth commandment as the basis for why children should obey their parents (Eph. 6:1-2).” This is actually the fifth commandment. The fourth commandment is to remember the sabbath to keep it holy.

12. on 02 Mar 2008 at 1:36 am   Josh

    I think a simple way to explain the idea of being “no longer under the law” is that we are no longer under the condemnation of the law. It is true that no human is perfectly able to fulfill the law, which is why we need Christ. Additionally, being now under Christ’s law as believers, we live in the spirit of the law. Interestingly, Christ used His first commandment to reference our relationship to God (which the OT sums up in the first four commandments) and His second commandment to reference our relationship to our fellow man (which the OT sums up in the last six commandments).

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