Comments on: No Longer Under the Law (Part 3) http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/ A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:54:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Darlene Bailey http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-112624 Darlene Bailey Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:18:00 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/#comment-112624 I don't know what Website you want? Do I have to have a blog or something?? I don't understand these types of things as I just go to Christian sites and print out the truths of the men that I believe are led of God in their thinking - J. Macarthur, Pink, Tozer, Havner, Spurgeon, Wesley, Moddy, etc. Please let me know what type of website you want me to list. Thanks. Darlene Bailey I don’t know what Website you want? Do I have to have a blog or something?? I don’t understand these types of things as I just go to Christian sites and print out the truths of the men that I believe are led of God in their thinking – J. Macarthur, Pink, Tozer, Havner, Spurgeon, Wesley, Moddy, etc.

Please let me know what type of website you want me to list.

Thanks.

Darlene Bailey

]]> By: David R. McCrory http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-110671 David R. McCrory Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:16:12 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/#comment-110671 "Is there overlap? Absolutely. Because both applications are derived from the same Lawgiver, and His character never changes." ~ Not only this, but we can study how God's Law was applied in the OT and use that to guide our ethic today as Christians under grace, not the burden of the Law. Your right though Nate, I think you're going to end up, after a long winding trip, close to the same place I am... I just took the shortcut. “Is there overlap? Absolutely. Because both applications are derived from the same Lawgiver, and His character never changes.”

~ Not only this, but we can study how God’s Law was applied in the OT and use that to guide our ethic today as Christians under grace, not the burden of the Law. Your right though Nate, I think you’re going to end up, after a long winding trip, close to the same place I am… I just took the shortcut.

]]> By: Phil Bradshaw http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-110668 Phil Bradshaw Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:46:37 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/#comment-110668 Since gentiles have been grafted into the Jewish olive tree should the gentile then look and act like the olive tree? On the surface I might have taken allegory too far. Thoughts? Since gentiles have been grafted into the Jewish olive tree should the gentile then look and act like the olive tree? On the surface I might have taken allegory too far. Thoughts?

]]> By: Pastor Steve http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-110660 Pastor Steve Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:28:17 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/#comment-110660 Wow! Quoting a couple of former DTS professors. I think you might be a bit dispensational :) That's o.k. because I would be thinking along those same lines too. How interesting to see some different perspectives on the Mosaic Law in relationship to the believer (from the comments the last few days). I still could never swallow the pill of Covenantal Theology, but it makes for some interesting dialogue. Wow! Quoting a couple of former DTS professors. I think you might be a bit dispensational :) That’s o.k. because I would be thinking along those same lines too. How interesting to see some different perspectives on the Mosaic Law in relationship to the believer (from the comments the last few days). I still could never swallow the pill of Covenantal Theology, but it makes for some interesting dialogue.

]]> By: Nate B. http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-110656 Nate B. Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:47:01 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/#comment-110656 David McCrory, Perhaps you will consider this semantics, but I see a "law" or "code of laws" as the application of the principle. While the principles never change, the laws can and do. Thus (and I'll tip my hand a bit here), I see the Mosaic Law as one application of God's immutable character -- an application that was binding on Old Testament believers. The Law of Christ, however, is a different application of that same character, and it is binding on New Testament believers. Is there overlap? Absolutely. Because both applications are derived from the same Lawgiver, and His character never changes. But we are not required to apply the Mosaic Law today, because that application was for Old Testament believers. Rather, we are commanded to apply the Law of Christ, a law which is derived from the same unchanging principles that undergirded the Law of Moses. ... But now I'm getting ahead of myself. Again, please hang in there. In the end, I think you'll see that my view is not far from what you've been saying up to this point. Thanks for your comments. - NB P.S. I should note (and will do so at the beginning of tomorrow's article) that my explanation of these things is not the only view held by other pastors at Grace Church. This is a complex issue and one on which many godly theologians throughout church history have disagreed. David McCrory,

Perhaps you will consider this semantics, but I see a “law” or “code of laws” as the application of the principle. While the principles never change, the laws can and do.

Thus (and I’ll tip my hand a bit here), I see the Mosaic Law as one application of God’s immutable character — an application that was binding on Old Testament believers.

The Law of Christ, however, is a different application of that same character, and it is binding on New Testament believers.

Is there overlap? Absolutely. Because both applications are derived from the same Lawgiver, and His character never changes.

But we are not required to apply the Mosaic Law today, because that application was for Old Testament believers. Rather, we are commanded to apply the Law of Christ, a law which is derived from the same unchanging principles that undergirded the Law of Moses.

… But now I’m getting ahead of myself.

Again, please hang in there. In the end, I think you’ll see that my view is not far from what you’ve been saying up to this point.

Thanks for your comments.
- NB

P.S. I should note (and will do so at the beginning of tomorrow’s article) that my explanation of these things is not the only view held by other pastors at Grace Church. This is a complex issue and one on which many godly theologians throughout church history have disagreed.

]]> By: tia http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-110651 tia Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:16:28 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/#comment-110651 I'm really appreciating this series. I’m really appreciating this series.

]]> By: Roy E Pearson http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-110649 Roy E Pearson Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:08:54 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/#comment-110649 It has been an enjoyable and enlightening discussion. One that I will refer to others. Thanks to you all. In Love, Roy It has been an enjoyable and enlightening discussion. One that I will refer to others. Thanks to you all.

In Love,

Roy

]]> By: David R. McCrory http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-110645 David R. McCrory Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:49:58 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/#comment-110645 "Principles and Law are two distinctly different things" ~ True, sort of. Principles inform our laws. Think about it like this. "Thou shall not kill". That is a law. The law here is not to murder somebody, the principle is that murder is wrong. Therefore, I might have a set of laws against BOTH shooting someone and drowning someone. Both are laws manifesting the same principle; murder is wrong in any form. So, as we view the OT Laws, they were one manifestation of God's abiding principles, and as we come to the NT they are a different manifestation UPHOLDING the very same eternal and unchanging priciples as well. Just as shooting or drowning someone breaks a specfic law and the abiding principle that murder is wrong, the laws of the OT and the NT illustrate for us the same thing. God has given us His abiding principles in the "Big 10". The rest of the OT laws are outworkings of these ten commands. Likewise, in the NT, the principles have not changed, only our relationship to them, through Christ has. In other words, what has been abolished is the specific application of God's Law, not the principle Law in and of itself. “Principles and Law are two distinctly different things”

~ True, sort of. Principles inform our laws. Think about it like this. “Thou shall not kill”. That is a law. The law here is not to murder somebody, the principle is that murder is wrong.

Therefore, I might have a set of laws against BOTH shooting someone and drowning someone. Both are laws manifesting the same principle; murder is wrong in any form.

So, as we view the OT Laws, they were one manifestation of God’s abiding principles, and as we come to the NT they are a different manifestation UPHOLDING the very same eternal and unchanging priciples as well.

Just as shooting or drowning someone breaks a specfic law and the abiding principle that murder is wrong, the laws of the OT and the NT illustrate for us the same thing.

God has given us His abiding principles in the “Big 10″. The rest of the OT laws are outworkings of these ten commands. Likewise, in the NT, the principles have not changed, only our relationship to them, through Christ has. In other words, what has been abolished is the specific application of God’s Law, not the principle Law in and of itself.

]]> By: Jesse Johnson http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-110643 Jesse Johnson Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:35:15 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/#comment-110643 (Eric)  You might be a cult if... 1. your domain name has to try and convince people you are not a cult 2. spam blogging is considered evangelism 3. you believe Christ's final work of atonement on the cross was not really his final work of atonement 4. you think Christians have to keep the Sabbath to go to heaven 5. your domain name has to try and convince people you are not a cult (Eric) 

You might be a cult if…

1. your domain name has to try and convince people you are not a cult

2. spam blogging is considered evangelism

3. you believe Christ’s final work of atonement on the cross was not really his final work of atonement

4. you think Christians have to keep the Sabbath to go to heaven

5. your domain name has to try and convince people you are not a cult

]]> By: J. Budill http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-110642 J. Budill Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:31:54 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/21/no-longer-under-the-law-part-3/#comment-110642 Personal Favorite, thought it fit in the discussion. Romans 13:8-14 (ESV) 8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. 11 Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. 12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. 14But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. Rommans 7:7-25, - Jeff Personal Favorite, thought it fit in the discussion.

Romans 13:8-14 (ESV)

8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
11 Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. 12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. 14But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.

Rommans 7:7-25,
- Jeff

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