So, my dilemma about discussing the law as to whether or not it applies to us today is more practical than theological. It seems we could discuss forever the different views of various individuals – but of course as clearly brought out Jesus says we fulfill the law by loving God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as ourself.

The word “love” described in the Greek/Strong’s concordance is certainly used in different ways – with different “Greek” words being used in various contexts. However, when it comes to true doctrine and love of God and His ways as portrayed throughout the Old and New Testaments – man’s problem is sin – and so they love themselves first and do what is right in their own eyes.

However, I have questioned my own pastor’s integrity because of various things he has allowed and done – thus it is very difficult for me to know what my part is in honoring God and wanting His name glorified – especially when my husband and other men do not confront him about the issues that I am going to share with you.

Here is what is being allowed in our church. We allow a worldly musical group to have concerts in our church because they allow us to use their grand piano; we now have a Montesori school in our church run by people from India; the pastor tried to get the church to have a tower put in for “cell phone” use??? which was voted down. He baptized a woman living in fornication (who had two children by the man she is living with) and then presented her to the church to be accepted as a member – she was voted on as no one knew that she was living in sin. When my husband and I found out what was going on – we had a deacon plus ourselves confront our pastor why he did this. He said there was only one place in Ephesians that talked about this – but when we said that God’s Word clearly showed this was sin and she should have never been baptized nor presented as a member – and that unless he did something about it we would leave the church. I don’t know if we should have made this “threat” so to speak but at the time we felt it was necessary that he know we would not accept this type of thing going on.

The deacon who was present is a very good friend of his, and he asked the pastor to talk with the father of the children and he would talk with the girl we had accepted in the church. However, our pastor has a tendency to “run things his way” and he is the one that talked with the girl and nothing was ever said about why she withdrew her membership. She came back two or three times after she resigned her membership and even went forward and talked with the pastor, but she nor he ever confessed their wrong to anyone as the deacons announced that this girl had withdrawn her membership by talking with the pastor. No reason was given by them.

This makes it very difficult for me to accept the pastor as God’s man when such things go on. I need direction as to “what love would do in these cases”. My husband seems satisfied since the girl withdrew her membership. But I felt there was no repentance although most of the time have acted like everything is ok. But at times it does come out in front of my husband that I disagree with the pastor in these other areas (the worldly musical group, Montesorri school, etc.). I am more knowledgeable in the Scriptures than my husband is – as I was a widow for 20 years (my husband died) before I married my present husband – I had attended a Bible School with my three children after my husband died and have had many Bible studies, etc. He is not a reader nor a studier – but loves the Lord and faithfully reads the Word, he is a very kind, loving and gracious husband. We married when I was 50 and he was 62 and have been married over 20 years.

Thank you for whatever correction, encouragement or advice you could give me in my attitude toward our pastor.

I realize this is “my side of the story” – but have honestly prayed about this for months and have told it truthfully, knowing I am answerable to God for all that I say and do.

Also another time I confronted the wife of the youth leader on what was being allowed in the way the young people dressed – one girl who had been attending our church for about a year came to a dinner where the teens served and wore “short shorts and a top that showed much of her bosom.” It seems the men tried to keep their eyes off her but of course there she was and it was very difficult for them according to what I could see. This dear lady looked at me as though I was from another world and said, “God doesn’t care how we dress”. I said he certianly does – but was so taken aback by what she said that I failed to mention Titus 2 – which I was seeking to follow as an older woman. Anyway they went to the pastor and he told them to keep on doing what they were doing. Even though Scripture says this type of dress blasphemes God (Titus 2:1-5). They took the youth to “way out Christian rock concerts” and were following the way of “the purpose driven church” as far as I could determine, trying to win the world by worldly methods.

Eventually they left the church – and were away about a year – but they were going through great financial setbacks (according to what the wife told me and shared with the whole church) he was demoted at his job and had to do things that was against his consicence evidently (he was in a car salesmanship business) and so he finally left that job and got another one after he came back to our church. I could share many other things but it would take too much time and might not be what God would have me to say. I need Godly counsel and wisdom to know how to “let God” work in His way and time.

Thank you,

Mrs. Darlene (A.W.) Bailey

http://christianitylaw.blogspot.com/

While this topic is of great interest, it is next to impossible to find good articles supporting the different views. It is my goal to do just that and I challenge anyone to offer up their own that is of sufficient quality.

Sean Daily

This is very late, but in case you see it . . . A post of mine was “lost” (I’m sure because of my own ineptitude) and only my apology for posting only part of my parting words made it into the thread.

Checking back tonight I discovered you cited all the Scriptures I thought of and included in the lost letter. Well said! My point is that we who are pastors are commanded by God to preach sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict, all for the edification and protection of God’s precious flock. That’s the sobering standard by which my faithfulness will be measured.

Jim

2 Timothy 4:1 “I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:
2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires,
4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
5 But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.”

Titus 1:9-10 “holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers…For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith.”

Titus 2:7 “in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified”…15 These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.

I do not want to get bogged down in semantics. If that is what I cause here, I will stop posting. This is a fine series and one that is not as fundamental to Christ Followers as it should be.

We as humans want to control and prove. We worry too much about what others do and not nearly enough about what we do. We woory about demons and the such. Jesus said to us,”Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God” (John 14) In John 14 Jesus lays it all out for us if we but haev ears to hear and eyes to read.

He tells us that if we know Him we know God. Thomas, the one in the group who I am most like, says, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?” Thomas always wanted the facts. He wanted to touch, feel, smell, hear, and see.

We are physical three dimensional beings who are doomed in this physical form to death and coruption. Jesus tells us that we are more than the facts, we are of the spirit.

It is the unseen the unproveable that is our salvation. I will tell you that in my life I have seen Love work wonders. I know in my heart that is true, but if you asked me to prove it, I can not do it. I can not prove that Jesus was the Som of God, Matthew tried very hard to show that Jesus was the Messiah, but I can find the faults in his arguement.

We have to rely upon the belief that Jesus is God, who is Love. Belief in that which we can not prove, except the change that comes into our lives that is evidenced by others but which has not proof of it’s source – but unto us.

Well, I am done. All arguement is but dust in the wind. Either God is or he isn’t. For me he is. He is, as John says, Love, and it is His Power that I ask to live inside me and be my Law. I am wed to no other.

In Love,

Roy

In Love,

Roy

Don’t be decieved, my brother! The scriptures say doctrines are either God-breathed truth, or they are doctrines from demons.

I Timothy 4:1 “But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons” (NASB)

The warning here is do not hurt yourself by paying attention to lies! God is love, and so He revealed Himself through His word. He tells us so we can know. How beautiful is that!?! God tells us to get understanding. Gain knowlege. Seek wisdom. God commands this. He fulfills this.

Satan deceived Eve by saying 1)God lied 2)get wise 3)be equal to God. Adam joined in the sinning and now man’s heart is evil and his doctrines say the same thing that Satan said to Eve. 1) God’s word is not all true. 2) You can know the truth apart from God’s word if only you… 3) What you think = what God said.

“what are the facts? Faith is not based upon facts, is it?”

Of course it is! Faith is either based on fact, or it is based on falsehood. If it is based on falsehood, it is not of God because God cannot lie. Man-made/fantasy/religions are of man, not God. God deals with the facts and says all creation is a set of facts that say He exists. Facts are everywhere to point to God, not to be worshiped as god.

Example: The fact is the sun rises in the east. I have faith it will do so again tomorrow based on that fact.

The fact is gravity keeps me from having to strap myself down to sit at the computer. I have faith gravity will do so again tomorrow based on that fact.

The facts of the scriptures encourage my faith.