Comments on: What Doctrines Are Essential? (Part 3) http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/ A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:54:00 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Ray B. http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-108582 Ray B. Fri, 15 Feb 2008 15:56:36 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/#comment-108582 Truth , I made a similar comment in the home schooling discussion. It seems like doctrine is almost a bad word today. But doctrine can be challenging, interesting thrilling and very relevant. Truth ,
I made a similar comment in the home schooling discussion. It seems like doctrine is almost a bad word today. But doctrine can be challenging, interesting thrilling and very relevant.

]]> By: Bob Hayton http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-108384 Bob Hayton Fri, 15 Feb 2008 03:34:12 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/#comment-108384 I've been interacting with the author of the 5 part series linked to above. He claims that doctrines should not be ranked as fundamental, secondary, and etc. He claims all doctrines are vitally important and dropping the ball on any point is cause for loss of fellowship and separation. I stand against such extreme separation. Having come from an extreme fundamental Baptist background, I really appreciate MacArthur's series of posts here. I've been debating this topic on my blog lately. My most recent post sums up the debate and links back to these posts: <a href="http://fundyreformed.wordpress.com/2008/02/14/the-concept-of-fundamental-doctrines-modern-reductionism-or-historic-protestant-doctrine/" rel="nofollow">The Concept of "Fundamental doctrines": Modern Reductionism or Historic Protestant Doctrine?</a> Come check it out if you're interested. Blessings to all, Bob Hayton I’ve been interacting with the author of the 5 part series linked to above. He claims that doctrines should not be ranked as fundamental, secondary, and etc. He claims all doctrines are vitally important and dropping the ball on any point is cause for loss of fellowship and separation.

I stand against such extreme separation. Having come from an extreme fundamental Baptist background, I really appreciate MacArthur’s series of posts here. I’ve been debating this topic on my blog lately. My most recent post sums up the debate and links back to these posts:

The Concept of “Fundamental doctrines”: Modern Reductionism or Historic Protestant Doctrine?

Come check it out if you’re interested.

Blessings to all,

Bob Hayton

]]> By: Truth Unites... and Divides http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-108168 Truth Unites... and Divides Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:28:08 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/#comment-108168 What I find ironically amusing is that the blog post on home schooling is attracting 100+ comments, and yet home schooling cannot be considered an "Essential" doctrine by Dr. MacArthur's definitions in his 3-part series! Why are these people arguing over a "Non-Essential" doctrine like home-schooling? What I find ironically amusing is that the blog post on home schooling is attracting 100+ comments, and yet home schooling cannot be considered an “Essential” doctrine by Dr. MacArthur’s definitions in his 3-part series!

Why are these people arguing over a “Non-Essential” doctrine like home-schooling?

]]> By: Truth Unites... and Divides http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-107763 Truth Unites... and Divides Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:24:18 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/#comment-107763 Here's another resource that I just found today. It's a 5-part blog series that advocates that Scripture doesn't teach a demarcation between essential doctrines and secondary doctrines. Start from Part 1 at the bottom. Pax. http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/search?q=Secondary+Tertiary+Essential Here’s another resource that I just found today. It’s a 5-part blog series that advocates that Scripture doesn’t teach a demarcation between essential doctrines and secondary doctrines. Start from Part 1 at the bottom.

Pax.

http://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/search?q=Secondary+Tertiary+Essential

]]> By: Lisa http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-107461 Lisa Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:41:26 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/#comment-107461 Thanks to all for your comments and links! The prayer in the above link is key for me. I really appreciate it! Whether someone is saved or not, only God knows. We are commanded to treat brothers who are in sin as if they are non-believers...lovingly share truth and testimony. Experiential Christianity has opened the doors to all kinds of bizarre cultic behavior! It used to be, non-believers would ask me about the Bible, Jesus or death, etc. Now, they all want to know what is up with the "Christians", then they tell of some celebrity preacher's book or TV show or some freaky church experience they had! I struggle to not say, "They are not Christians!" I need to pray so much more! We do not worship the same Jesus! I broke fellowship with some folks who say you can't have the Holy Spirit if you do not speak in tongues. It is an evil generation that looks for a sign. What is the "same gospel"? If someone believes they were good enough to keep themselves saved today, have they understood their sin, and need of a Savior? I grow weary of their legalism. Jesus said He was God. He did miracles to validate His claims. He taught with authority that every man is a sinner in need of Jesus, the way to the Father. He invited everyone to come to Him in repentance. All the scriptures pointed to Him, just as he claimed. Below are links to two of my favorite booklets to keep me grounded in Who Christ Jesus is: http://www.rbc.org/bible_study/discovery_series/booklets/31015.aspx http://www.rbc.org/bible_study/discovery_series/booklet/31014.aspx Thank you for your encouragement to be steadfast! Thanks to all for your comments and links!
The prayer in the above link is key for me. I really appreciate it! Whether someone is saved or not, only God knows. We are commanded to treat brothers who are in sin as if they are non-believers…lovingly share truth and testimony.
Experiential Christianity has opened the doors to all kinds of bizarre cultic behavior! It used to be, non-believers would ask me about the Bible, Jesus or death, etc. Now, they all want to know what is up with the “Christians”, then they tell of some celebrity preacher’s book or TV show or some freaky church experience they had! I struggle to not say, “They are not Christians!” I need to pray so much more! We do not worship the same Jesus! I broke fellowship with some folks who say you can’t have the Holy Spirit if you do not speak in tongues. It is an evil generation that looks for a sign.
What is the “same gospel”? If someone believes they were good enough to keep themselves saved today, have they understood their sin, and need of a Savior? I grow weary of their legalism.
Jesus said He was God. He did miracles to validate His claims. He taught with authority that every man is a sinner in need of Jesus, the way to the Father. He invited everyone to come to Him in repentance. All the scriptures pointed to Him, just as he claimed. Below are links to two of my favorite booklets to keep me grounded in Who Christ Jesus is:

http://www.rbc.org/bible_study/discovery_series/booklets/31015.aspx
http://www.rbc.org/bible_study/discovery_series/booklet/31014.aspx
Thank you for your encouragement to be steadfast!

]]> By: Truth Unites... and Divides http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-107422 Truth Unites... and Divides Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:57:59 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/#comment-107422 I just found this today! It's an example of how several pastors confront doctrinal error and false teaching of another pastor. http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/Blog/post/Rob-Bell2c-the-Pastore28099s-Task-of-Discernment2c-and-My-Heart.aspx I just found this today! It’s an example of how several pastors confront doctrinal error and false teaching of another pastor.

http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/Blog/post/Rob-Bell2c-the-Pastore28099s-Task-of-Discernment2c-and-My-Heart.aspx

]]> By: Faye http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-107352 Faye Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:25:11 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/#comment-107352 Wooh, re-reading my posts, I am sorry about all of the mis-spelled words. Please read through them. I really need my Websters clase by when I blog. Thanks. Wooh, re-reading my posts, I am sorry about all of the mis-spelled words. Please read through them. I really need my Websters clase by when I blog. Thanks.

]]> By: Truth Unites... and Divides http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-107341 Truth Unites... and Divides Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:14:10 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/#comment-107341 Thanks for your response Faye. If I were to come from a Reform TULIP perspective, I would say that Elroy was never a Christian. Therefore, he couldn't lose what he never had, i.e., eternal salvation. If I were to come from an Arminian perspective, I would say that if Elroy didn't repent of his heresy and apostasy, then he has lost his salvation. I don't know if he has technically denied the doctrines that Dr. MacArthur has specified were essential or not, but by all appearances, it looks as though he has. Tracking back to my posts in Part 2 of this series, he has denied inerrancy, he denies that abortion is a sin, and he denies that same-sex behavior is a sin. He also says that he's lost his faith. And he served in youth ministry in several churches. Thanks for your response Faye.

If I were to come from a Reform TULIP perspective, I would say that Elroy was never a Christian. Therefore, he couldn’t lose what he never had, i.e., eternal salvation.

If I were to come from an Arminian perspective, I would say that if Elroy didn’t repent of his heresy and apostasy, then he has lost his salvation. I don’t know if he has technically denied the doctrines that Dr. MacArthur has specified were essential or not, but by all appearances, it looks as though he has.

Tracking back to my posts in Part 2 of this series, he has denied inerrancy, he denies that abortion is a sin, and he denies that same-sex behavior is a sin. He also says that he’s lost his faith. And he served in youth ministry in several churches.

]]> By: Faye http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-107239 Faye Tue, 12 Feb 2008 03:10:34 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/#comment-107239 Truth, I read the entire article. Much of what Elroy writes is sadly true. In paragraph 4 ... believing because of a personal experience? He is right this is an extremely sujective basis for determining the truth. I am just a past middle age rancher's wife living in the middle of nowhere. I am not a biblical scholar but my impression is that Elroy places too much importance upon man. He seems to be interupiting God from his experience with mankind and using this as his lense to determining the truth about God, Jesus and the Bible. Even though he will not agree, he does need prayer to come to know who God is. Not through looking at man but reading about who God is from the only availabe source. Truth,
I read the entire article. Much of what Elroy writes is sadly true.
In paragraph 4 … believing because of a personal experience? He is right this is an extremely sujective basis for determining the truth.
I am just a past middle age rancher’s wife living in the middle of nowhere. I am not a biblical scholar but my impression is that Elroy places too much importance upon man. He seems to be interupiting God from his experience with mankind and using this as his lense to determining the truth about God, Jesus and the Bible.
Even though he will not agree, he does need prayer to come to know who God is. Not through looking at man but reading about who God is from the only availabe source.

]]> By: Truth Unites... and Divides http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/comment-page-1/#comment-107135 Truth Unites... and Divides Mon, 11 Feb 2008 21:42:20 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/02/08/what-doctrines-are-essential-part-3/#comment-107135 All, please read the following link: http://elroy.net/ehr/aboutelroy.html He writes: "Today I continue to believe in a loving God, but I can no longer claim the Bible to be his Word, nor can I claim myself to be a follower of the Christ most Christians follow." Later on he writes: "Before going into the Internet business I worked as the youth leader in several churches for nearly 15 years. I also worked at Young Life for six years." Questions: Does this fellow have the <i>essential</i> doctrines? Has he denied what he is forbidden to deny? He denies the inerrancy of Scripture, he supports abortion, and gay marriage. Is he a Christian? Or was he never a Christian? Can anyone make a reasonable discernment as to his eternal status? Should anyone make a reasonable discernment about his eternal status? Does he need to <i>really</i> hear and be transformed by the True Gospel? Or is he just a wayward disciple who's hit a bump on the road since Reform Christians believe in the Perseverance of the Saints and he's a saint that's a little off-track. What say thee? All, please read the following link:

http://elroy.net/ehr/aboutelroy.html

He writes: “Today I continue to believe in a loving God, but I can no longer claim the Bible to be his Word, nor can I claim myself to be a follower of the Christ most Christians follow.”

Later on he writes: “Before going into the Internet business I worked as the youth leader in several churches for nearly 15 years. I also worked at Young Life for six years.”

Questions: Does this fellow have the essential doctrines? Has he denied what he is forbidden to deny? He denies the inerrancy of Scripture, he supports abortion, and gay marriage. Is he a Christian? Or was he never a Christian? Can anyone make a reasonable discernment as to his eternal status? Should anyone make a reasonable discernment about his eternal status? Does he need to really hear and be transformed by the True Gospel? Or is he just a wayward disciple who’s hit a bump on the road since Reform Christians believe in the Perseverance of the Saints and he’s a saint that’s a little off-track.

What say thee?

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