Comments on: Saved to the Uttermost http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/ A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:54:00 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Daniel Chaney http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/comment-page-2/#comment-104445 Daniel Chaney Sat, 02 Feb 2008 14:28:00 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/#comment-104445 Ray, Everyone has a struggle with sin. Those who overcome it do so because of the Holy Spirit's working in them. We cannot see the Holy Spirit, and therefore it may seem as if we ourselves were able to overcome sin. It may seem that our decision was not caused by God, but this is our perspective. You asked, "Is there choice or not ?" My answer is yes. There is a sense in which it is our choice, and there is a sense in which it is not. But again, I have already explained this, and I do not want to be redundant. Knowing your belief about inherited sin, that is an issue that forms the foundation for your belief about salvation. This discussion is just the surface. Your belief about inherited sin is what should be addressed first. Ray,

Everyone has a struggle with sin. Those who overcome it do so because of the Holy Spirit’s working in them. We cannot see the Holy Spirit, and therefore it may seem as if we ourselves were able to overcome sin. It may seem that our decision was not caused by God, but this is our perspective.

You asked, “Is there choice or not ?”

My answer is yes. There is a sense in which it is our choice, and there is a sense in which it is not. But again, I have already explained this, and I do not want to be redundant. Knowing your belief about inherited sin, that is an issue that forms the foundation for your belief about salvation. This discussion is just the surface. Your belief about inherited sin is what should be addressed first.

]]> By: Ray B. http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/comment-page-2/#comment-102528 Ray B. Sat, 26 Jan 2008 20:48:56 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/#comment-102528 Daniel , I was going back and reading old posts and came across this earlier discussion. I am more confused by what you say now. Twice you talk about a choice being made and a daily struggle. It seems to me that the elect would not have such a struggle since they are the only ones being helped into a life of sanctification. Is there choice or not ? Or are we just supernaturally chosen and then miraculously guided all the way , the elect. I say again ; poor non-elect. Daniel ,
I was going back and reading old posts and came across this earlier discussion. I am more confused by what you say now. Twice you talk about a choice being made and a daily struggle. It seems to me that the elect would not have such a struggle since they are the only ones being helped into a life of sanctification. Is there choice or not ? Or are we just supernaturally chosen and then miraculously guided all the way , the elect. I say again ; poor non-elect.

]]> By: Daniel Chaney http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/comment-page-2/#comment-100328 Daniel Chaney Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:56:20 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/#comment-100328 Ray, I am afraid you misunderstood my comment. I was not saying that if a Christian sins, that he is not saved. I was saying that we will not get rid of our old nature until we are glorified. No Christian is perfect. Every Christian will continue to struggle with sin. Only those who, by the Holy Spirit, are being sanctified (becoming more like Christ) are truly the sons of God. A Christian has two natures waring within. One is our sin nature that we inherit at birth. This nature can only choose to sin. The second nature is inherited when we are born again (notice that neither birth was a result of our choice). This nature is the nature of Christ that can only choose to do good. Now we have two natures, both contrary to the other. This is a constant struggle. Ray,

I am afraid you misunderstood my comment. I was not saying that if a Christian sins, that he is not saved. I was saying that we will not get rid of our old nature until we are glorified. No Christian is perfect. Every Christian will continue to struggle with sin. Only those who, by the Holy Spirit, are being sanctified (becoming more like Christ) are truly the sons of God. A Christian has two natures waring within. One is our sin nature that we inherit at birth. This nature can only choose to sin. The second nature is inherited when we are born again (notice that neither birth was a result of our choice). This nature is the nature of Christ that can only choose to do good. Now we have two natures, both contrary to the other. This is a constant struggle.

]]> By: Ray B. http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/comment-page-2/#comment-100305 Ray B. Mon, 21 Jan 2008 17:18:54 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/#comment-100305 Daniel , Are you saying that only those who have a sinful nature as Christians are the only Christians that will ever sin ? IS it True then , that the elect will not sin ? This is becoming more confusing all the time . I can only guess that maybe I am not one of the elect. Daniel ,
Are you saying that only those who have a sinful nature as Christians are the only Christians that will ever sin ?
IS it True then , that the elect will not sin ? This is becoming more confusing all the time . I can only guess that maybe I am not one of the elect.

]]> By: Daniel Chaney http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/comment-page-2/#comment-98675 Daniel Chaney Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:58:41 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/#comment-98675 Ray, When a Christian sins, that is evidence that he has not gotten rid of the old nature that can only choose to do evil continually. This is what I can take credit for. However, we know that we cannot lose the Holy Spirit. Ray,

When a Christian sins, that is evidence that he has not gotten rid of the old nature that can only choose to do evil continually. This is what I can take credit for. However, we know that we cannot lose the Holy Spirit.

]]> By: Ray B. http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/comment-page-2/#comment-98579 Ray B. Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:40:31 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/#comment-98579 Daniel , When a Christian does sin , has the Holy Spirit failed ? Daniel ,
When a Christian does sin , has the Holy Spirit failed ?

]]> By: Daniel Chaney http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/comment-page-2/#comment-98319 Daniel Chaney Wed, 16 Jan 2008 17:49:13 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/#comment-98319 Ray, I agree, we make choices every day that impact our future as well as others'. We need to choose to obey God, because He has given us everything that we need to know to do so. Without God's divine intervention, I would choose to do only evil continually. Without God's sustaining me, I would only choose to leave Him. That is the extent of my nature. Thank God that He has placed in me a new nature. I still struggle with the old nature, but I can now choose to do good. This, however, is the Holy Spirit's work in me, therefore I cannot claim credit for my choices. Ray,

I agree, we make choices every day that impact our future as well as others’. We need to choose to obey God, because He has given us everything that we need to know to do so. Without God’s divine intervention, I would choose to do only evil continually. Without God’s sustaining me, I would only choose to leave Him. That is the extent of my nature. Thank God that He has placed in me a new nature. I still struggle with the old nature, but I can now choose to do good. This, however, is the Holy Spirit’s work in me, therefore I cannot claim credit for my choices.

]]> By: Ray B.. http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/comment-page-2/#comment-97932 Ray B.. Tue, 15 Jan 2008 18:17:26 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/#comment-97932 Daniel , God has given us everything we need. If we sin does that mean God has not helped us ? It is a free choice everyday. Daniel ,
God has given us everything we need. If we sin does that mean God has not helped us ? It is a free choice everyday.

]]> By: Daniel Chaney http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/comment-page-2/#comment-97810 Daniel Chaney Tue, 15 Jan 2008 03:22:31 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/#comment-97810 Ray, If God's help is not enough to ensure our obedience, then we are all in very serious trouble, don't you think? Ray,

If God’s help is not enough to ensure our obedience, then we are all in very serious trouble, don’t you think?

]]> By: Ray B. http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/comment-page-2/#comment-97776 Ray B. Mon, 14 Jan 2008 23:30:31 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2008/01/04/saved-to-the-uttermost/#comment-97776 KC , As we live in harmony with God and His will , He helps us in the responsiblity to obey. And gives us free will to choose to obey or not. We express our love for Him in obeying His will. I John 5 : 3. KC ,
As we live in harmony with God and His will , He helps us in the responsiblity to obey. And gives us free will to choose to obey or not. We express our love for Him in obeying His will. I John 5 : 3.

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