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	<title>Comments on: The Spirit in Counseling</title>
	<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/</link>
	<description>A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 18:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: David</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-86214</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-86214</guid>
					<description>Most people have no idea the dangers and subtle, but costly deceptions that are awaiting them if they choose to counsel with those who call themselves "christian counselors" yet who do not ever use scripture, biblical terminology, or even really speak about the Lord in counselling.  Four years ago I was a youth pastor of a church for 11 years.  I knew my wife began seeing a "christian counselor", but I did not know that this counselor was practing Recovered Memory Therapy on her.  Within a couple of months my wife became extrememly suicidal, depressed, incredibly feaful of me and her parents and many in the church.  She preceded to ask for a marital separation and didn't want to get into counseling with me for the next 3 years.  I finally got in to see this counselor and learned that she taught that in order to fix our problems, we have to go into our past by tapping into the memories that our body parts have stored.  She proceded to tell me all kinds of shocking things.  The church finally got involved and tried to redirect us to other christian counselors- who ended up all doing similar sorts of Regression Therapy, teaching that the way to grow and deal with our problems is to try and discover who might have wounded me from my past when I was a toddler.  I couldn't belive what I was hearing.  A long story short... we were separated for four years.  I lost my ministry career, my wife, my children, my home all due to this same type of counseling.  By God's grace I just recently moved back home, on a trial basis, but things are rocky and much damage has been done to our family, especially the children.  We're not out of the woods yet, but I have learned so much.  Beware of those who never use scripture, never use the word "sin" and teach that the key to your growth is finding blame in the past- all at $100 per hour.  It may just cost you greatly!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most people have no idea the dangers and subtle, but costly deceptions that are awaiting them if they choose to counsel with those who call themselves &#8220;christian counselors&#8221; yet who do not ever use scripture, biblical terminology, or even really speak about the Lord in counselling.  Four years ago I was a youth pastor of a church for 11 years.  I knew my wife began seeing a &#8220;christian counselor&#8221;, but I did not know that this counselor was practing Recovered Memory Therapy on her.  Within a couple of months my wife became extrememly suicidal, depressed, incredibly feaful of me and her parents and many in the church.  She preceded to ask for a marital separation and didn&#8217;t want to get into counseling with me for the next 3 years.  I finally got in to see this counselor and learned that she taught that in order to fix our problems, we have to go into our past by tapping into the memories that our body parts have stored.  She proceded to tell me all kinds of shocking things.  The church finally got involved and tried to redirect us to other christian counselors- who ended up all doing similar sorts of Regression Therapy, teaching that the way to grow and deal with our problems is to try and discover who might have wounded me from my past when I was a toddler.  I couldn&#8217;t belive what I was hearing.  A long story short&#8230; we were separated for four years.  I lost my ministry career, my wife, my children, my home all due to this same type of counseling.  By God&#8217;s grace I just recently moved back home, on a trial basis, but things are rocky and much damage has been done to our family, especially the children.  We&#8217;re not out of the woods yet, but I have learned so much.  Beware of those who never use scripture, never use the word &#8220;sin&#8221; and teach that the key to your growth is finding blame in the past- all at $100 per hour.  It may just cost you greatly!
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		<title>by: Kat</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-72197</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 01:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-72197</guid>
					<description>Thank you for this blog. I have worked around organized mental health for 18 years.  I have watched people get involved in counseling, get a diagnoses of a mental illness, get medicated, immerse their identity in the label they have, lose their jobs, go on social security, get divorced, and end up with lives that are utterly useless in terms of serving God.  I've seen it over and over again.  My sister is actually a Christian counselor in a Christian counseling center.  
She confides in me that she believes the bible is fairy tales, she is a feminist who doesn't believe that fornication is a sin and some people who live together have a psychological need to not get married.  Therefore, people who are sent to her as a Christian counselor get permission to engage in a sinful life and go to therapy with her every week to deal with the pain of their sin.  She encourages them their issues all have to do with attachment disorder and bad parenting.  

She believes that psychological needs are separate from spiritual needs and that the church is not capable of meeting psychological needs (and of course fornication is something she considers a psychological need)

Recently, a woman called into the Christian radio station saying that she had become very depressed and sought out a pastor and a church, became a believer and God had helped her very much.  The Christian DJ responded by saying that is great, but, did you also line up a therapist for the depression?  You need that too... in fact we can refer you.  

Having observed the fruit in many lives of involved with this "religion" of mental health I've concluded it is one of the most dangerous stumbling blocks of people turning to Christ that I know of.  Often it is sin, someone else's or your own, or both, that is the root of despair.  Medications do not deal with that root, but rather mask it.  As far as chemical imbalances and severe and chronic diagnoses that "need" medication, I am in communication with several people with severe labels that do not take medication but maintain stability by deep communication with God through his word.  It works very well from what I hear.

I don't condemn those who take medications, however, I note that they are not all that effective.  They are not the magic bullet and eventually human beings still have to deal with sin and other obstacles to find peace with God.  Prozac, cannot forgive your sins, neither can your counselor all though they may tell you guilt about sin is a sign of mental illness and give you drugs to help you "get over it."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this blog. I have worked around organized mental health for 18 years.  I have watched people get involved in counseling, get a diagnoses of a mental illness, get medicated, immerse their identity in the label they have, lose their jobs, go on social security, get divorced, and end up with lives that are utterly useless in terms of serving God.  I&#8217;ve seen it over and over again.  My sister is actually a Christian counselor in a Christian counseling center.<br />
She confides in me that she believes the bible is fairy tales, she is a feminist who doesn&#8217;t believe that fornication is a sin and some people who live together have a psychological need to not get married.  Therefore, people who are sent to her as a Christian counselor get permission to engage in a sinful life and go to therapy with her every week to deal with the pain of their sin.  She encourages them their issues all have to do with attachment disorder and bad parenting.  </p>
<p>She believes that psychological needs are separate from spiritual needs and that the church is not capable of meeting psychological needs (and of course fornication is something she considers a psychological need)</p>
<p>Recently, a woman called into the Christian radio station saying that she had become very depressed and sought out a pastor and a church, became a believer and God had helped her very much.  The Christian DJ responded by saying that is great, but, did you also line up a therapist for the depression?  You need that too&#8230; in fact we can refer you.  </p>
<p>Having observed the fruit in many lives of involved with this &#8220;religion&#8221; of mental health I&#8217;ve concluded it is one of the most dangerous stumbling blocks of people turning to Christ that I know of.  Often it is sin, someone else&#8217;s or your own, or both, that is the root of despair.  Medications do not deal with that root, but rather mask it.  As far as chemical imbalances and severe and chronic diagnoses that &#8220;need&#8221; medication, I am in communication with several people with severe labels that do not take medication but maintain stability by deep communication with God through his word.  It works very well from what I hear.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t condemn those who take medications, however, I note that they are not all that effective.  They are not the magic bullet and eventually human beings still have to deal with sin and other obstacles to find peace with God.  Prozac, cannot forgive your sins, neither can your counselor all though they may tell you guilt about sin is a sign of mental illness and give you drugs to help you &#8220;get over it.&#8221;
</p>
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		<title>by: John P</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-70411</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 15:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-70411</guid>
					<description>Dave, 
I agree...Jay Adams in his books on counseling calls it 'pre-counseling' when your dealing with an unbeliever.  He says pre-counseling is really evangelism, you show them how to deal with the problem and then show them why they are not able to do so, without Christ.

Reg,
That is a good point but from what I've read by MacArthur and Jay Adams and also from information at Biblical Counseling Online (biblicalcounselingonline.org) it seems to me that the emphasis is on the fact that many people on medication do not really need to be.  In my own experience I have a relative, a teen, that had some behavior problems, went to church for a couple years and eventually clearly rejected Christ and now wants no part of Christianity.  I watched her go downhill from there and school counselors and doctors that she had to see all agreed that she had 'medical' problems and needed to be on medication.  I was told by relatives that she was heard saying that she did not think she needed the medicine but liked the 'high' she got from it.  It would take pages to explain all the details but from knowing this person for years I could see it is a spiritual problem taking it's course.
  
I suppose with good biblical counseling, however, there is a need to determine when one actually needs medication.  It just seems the world is too quick to use medication to solve all problems.  As I wrote above they told me I needed medication and I chose biblical principles instead and got through it.  I often wonder where I would be today if I chose the other route...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,<br />
I agree&#8230;Jay Adams in his books on counseling calls it &#8216;pre-counseling&#8217; when your dealing with an unbeliever.  He says pre-counseling is really evangelism, you show them how to deal with the problem and then show them why they are not able to do so, without Christ.</p>
<p>Reg,<br />
That is a good point but from what I&#8217;ve read by MacArthur and Jay Adams and also from information at Biblical Counseling Online (biblicalcounselingonline.org) it seems to me that the emphasis is on the fact that many people on medication do not really need to be.  In my own experience I have a relative, a teen, that had some behavior problems, went to church for a couple years and eventually clearly rejected Christ and now wants no part of Christianity.  I watched her go downhill from there and school counselors and doctors that she had to see all agreed that she had &#8216;medical&#8217; problems and needed to be on medication.  I was told by relatives that she was heard saying that she did not think she needed the medicine but liked the &#8216;high&#8217; she got from it.  It would take pages to explain all the details but from knowing this person for years I could see it is a spiritual problem taking it&#8217;s course.</p>
<p>I suppose with good biblical counseling, however, there is a need to determine when one actually needs medication.  It just seems the world is too quick to use medication to solve all problems.  As I wrote above they told me I needed medication and I chose biblical principles instead and got through it.  I often wonder where I would be today if I chose the other route&#8230;
</p>
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		<title>by: Reg</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-70307</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 18:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-70307</guid>
					<description>John White's books seem to suggest that there are some cases where "chemical imbalance" does need to be treated medically. If he is correct would there be any harm in always first using the non-medical approach proposed by McArthur?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John White&#8217;s books seem to suggest that there are some cases where &#8220;chemical imbalance&#8221; does need to be treated medically. If he is correct would there be any harm in always first using the non-medical approach proposed by McArthur?
</p>
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		<title>by: David McCrory</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-70174</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 16:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-70174</guid>
					<description>I think what this suggests then is that man's greatest need is Jesus Christ. The indwelling of the Spirit only comes after we place our hope and trust in Him. As a result true Biblical counseling can only occur with those who have the Spirit. God's Word is spiritually discerned. Therefore, before we can presume to counsel people in matters Biblically applied, we must become assured of their relationship with Jesus Christ, and if they are outside Christ, the first bit of counsel they may receive would be the Gospel itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what this suggests then is that man&#8217;s greatest need is Jesus Christ. The indwelling of the Spirit only comes after we place our hope and trust in Him. As a result true Biblical counseling can only occur with those who have the Spirit. God&#8217;s Word is spiritually discerned. Therefore, before we can presume to counsel people in matters Biblically applied, we must become assured of their relationship with Jesus Christ, and if they are outside Christ, the first bit of counsel they may receive would be the Gospel itself.
</p>
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		<title>by: InHim</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-70043</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 23:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-70043</guid>
					<description>I believe psychiatry and medication has its place. From Schizophrenia (which most people know nothing about even though the term is used all the time) to Bipolar Disorder, to Epilepsy to Parkinson's. The latter two not necessarily covered under psychiatry, but conditions which need medication nonetheless. I wouldn't rule out psychiatry in it's entirety and I would imagine that may not be what MacArthur saying in this article, although it's not clear.

I'm glad that John MacArthur actually &lt;em&gt;addresses&lt;/em&gt; at least one of the issues (in the book Anxiety Attacked as mentioned above) instead of just blasting the whole idea, saying the Holy Spirit is enough and leaving it at that, as so many do, with no real solutions.

I have benefited &lt;em&gt;so&lt;/em&gt; much more from studying the Bible, reading Christian books about Jesus and the Bible and even listening to Pastor MacArthur's sermons than from the "Christian" counseling I went through. 

I'm sure there are good Christian (meaning Biblical) counselors who don't include traditional psychotherapy out there but I've yet to find one and I'm sure they're few and far between.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe psychiatry and medication has its place. From Schizophrenia (which most people know nothing about even though the term is used all the time) to Bipolar Disorder, to Epilepsy to Parkinson&#8217;s. The latter two not necessarily covered under psychiatry, but conditions which need medication nonetheless. I wouldn&#8217;t rule out psychiatry in it&#8217;s entirety and I would imagine that may not be what MacArthur saying in this article, although it&#8217;s not clear.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad that John MacArthur actually <em>addresses</em> at least one of the issues (in the book Anxiety Attacked as mentioned above) instead of just blasting the whole idea, saying the Holy Spirit is enough and leaving it at that, as so many do, with no real solutions.</p>
<p>I have benefited <em>so</em> much more from studying the Bible, reading Christian books about Jesus and the Bible and even listening to Pastor MacArthur&#8217;s sermons than from the &#8220;Christian&#8221; counseling I went through. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there are good Christian (meaning Biblical) counselors who don&#8217;t include traditional psychotherapy out there but I&#8217;ve yet to find one and I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;re few and far between.
</p>
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		<title>by: Josh Buice</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-69922</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 00:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-69922</guid>
					<description>I fully agree!  The root problem is not the exterior - it is the interior!  The root problem is a sin problem.  One of the most troubling things in our day is the medical field related to psychology. Approximately 14 billion dollars per year are spent on anti-depressants.  Many of these anti-depressants are prescribed due to "chemical imbalances."  What many do not realize is that "chemical imbalances" are a theory not a proven fact!  

If we will have a biblical view of depravity - we will better understand the problems with humanity in our fallen world.

Rev. Josh Buice
www.deliveredbygrace.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fully agree!  The root problem is not the exterior - it is the interior!  The root problem is a sin problem.  One of the most troubling things in our day is the medical field related to psychology. Approximately 14 billion dollars per year are spent on anti-depressants.  Many of these anti-depressants are prescribed due to &#8220;chemical imbalances.&#8221;  What many do not realize is that &#8220;chemical imbalances&#8221; are a theory not a proven fact!  </p>
<p>If we will have a biblical view of depravity - we will better understand the problems with humanity in our fallen world.</p>
<p>Rev. Josh Buice<br />
<a href='http://www.deliveredbygrace.com' rel='nofollow'>www.deliveredbygrace.com</a>
</p>
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		<title>by: John Puhalski</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-69884</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-69884</guid>
					<description>Great article, I've been exposed to quite a bit of this the last few years as I have a couple family members (not Christians) who have been seeing psychiatrists and taking medication as advised by doctors.  The problem of sin is not addressed or even considered.

In early 2006 as a result of the family problems I began having panic and anxiety attacks.  After a couple hospital visits they determined that there was nothing physically wrong and that I was dealing with too much stress and should be on medication.  I filled the prescription but then held the bottle in my hand looking at it and decided that this was not the right way to deal with it.  


Which brings up another concern.  Biblical counseling.  I could hardly find any and feel this is a great need in the church today.  As it turns out I still keep in touch with my old pastor who is now out of state but was alway good with counseling.  I called and asked about it.  He asked me why they wanted me to go on medication, I said because I was anxious.  So he asked me what the bible says about being anxious.  I quoted Phil 4:6, "Be anxious for nothing..."  Then he asked me what the bible says we should do when we are anxious.  I continued the verse, "...make your requests know to God..."  His point was clear, medication would just mask the symptoms but not solve the problems.  In one conversation I had my answer. I tossed the bottle and began dealing with the problem the right way.

  I wound up counseling myself using Jay Adams' material and John Macarthur's book Anxiety Attacked.  When I awoke in the middle of the night I would pray and read...In a month or two I was able to deal with the problem correctly and have been doing good ever since.  When I feel anxious due to circumstances I know how to deal with it correctly without medicating myself.  I also took some practical steps such as cutting back on caffeine and getting more exercise.

Another thing I've noticed is that young children with behavior problems are also being medicated.  Rather than using discipline children are given medicine.  This is scary.  We need more of an emphasis on Biblical counseling in the church today.  

I like one of the things my pastor told me.  If modern medicine and psychology were around in David's day we would not have a third of the psalms...they would have just given him some "medication" to deal with his troubles rather than crying out to God for help.

Hope to see more on this issue.
john</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, I&#8217;ve been exposed to quite a bit of this the last few years as I have a couple family members (not Christians) who have been seeing psychiatrists and taking medication as advised by doctors.  The problem of sin is not addressed or even considered.</p>
<p>In early 2006 as a result of the family problems I began having panic and anxiety attacks.  After a couple hospital visits they determined that there was nothing physically wrong and that I was dealing with too much stress and should be on medication.  I filled the prescription but then held the bottle in my hand looking at it and decided that this was not the right way to deal with it.  </p>
<p>Which brings up another concern.  Biblical counseling.  I could hardly find any and feel this is a great need in the church today.  As it turns out I still keep in touch with my old pastor who is now out of state but was alway good with counseling.  I called and asked about it.  He asked me why they wanted me to go on medication, I said because I was anxious.  So he asked me what the bible says about being anxious.  I quoted Phil 4:6, &#8220;Be anxious for nothing&#8230;&#8221;  Then he asked me what the bible says we should do when we are anxious.  I continued the verse, &#8220;&#8230;make your requests know to God&#8230;&#8221;  His point was clear, medication would just mask the symptoms but not solve the problems.  In one conversation I had my answer. I tossed the bottle and began dealing with the problem the right way.</p>
<p>  I wound up counseling myself using Jay Adams&#8217; material and John Macarthur&#8217;s book Anxiety Attacked.  When I awoke in the middle of the night I would pray and read&#8230;In a month or two I was able to deal with the problem correctly and have been doing good ever since.  When I feel anxious due to circumstances I know how to deal with it correctly without medicating myself.  I also took some practical steps such as cutting back on caffeine and getting more exercise.</p>
<p>Another thing I&#8217;ve noticed is that young children with behavior problems are also being medicated.  Rather than using discipline children are given medicine.  This is scary.  We need more of an emphasis on Biblical counseling in the church today.  </p>
<p>I like one of the things my pastor told me.  If modern medicine and psychology were around in David&#8217;s day we would not have a third of the psalms&#8230;they would have just given him some &#8220;medication&#8221; to deal with his troubles rather than crying out to God for help.</p>
<p>Hope to see more on this issue.<br />
john
</p>
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		<title>by: Ken Thigpen</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-69848</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/10/29/the-spirit-in-counseling/#comment-69848</guid>
					<description>Hello everyone,
I agree the article because I had experience from the hearing pastor who has counseling courses through from the college. He graduated there. He really enjoyed the counseling career. My wife and I went to see him for our marriage to improve. It hits me hard that he never use the scriptures from what the Bible's persceptive. He uses the psychology from his background. It bothers me alot because I read a good book by John MaCArthur about the counseling. It helped me so much and understand what the Bible is coming from the God's breath. I realized and am so scared because the pastor depends from education background from secular college. What do you suggest us to be careful and a good counselor?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello everyone,<br />
I agree the article because I had experience from the hearing pastor who has counseling courses through from the college. He graduated there. He really enjoyed the counseling career. My wife and I went to see him for our marriage to improve. It hits me hard that he never use the scriptures from what the Bible&#8217;s persceptive. He uses the psychology from his background. It bothers me alot because I read a good book by John MaCArthur about the counseling. It helped me so much and understand what the Bible is coming from the God&#8217;s breath. I realized and am so scared because the pastor depends from education background from secular college. What do you suggest us to be careful and a good counselor?
</p>
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