Another issue that has yet to be brought into the fray is the fact that the vast majority of churches in this country are State churches. I hesitate to even bring this one up because people often go into a fit of irrational accusations of saying that you are rebellious if you don’t obey the State, etc… But the State does not require a church to join it (incorporate) and a simple reading of the State documents regarding churches (religious organizations) that incorporate themselves into the body of the State, thus making them subservient to it, by becoming a not for profit corporation should be enough for anyone to know to keep away from becoming a formal member of such an organization. Much blood of many martyrs has been spilled over this very issue. I have a friend who is a pastor from Scotland and he was astonished to learn that the churches in America could possibly be in such a state. In a totally flabbergasted manner he could only say, “Why on earth would they ever do that!?” Christians in Scotland may be more aware perhaps of the price paid by many of our brothers for resisting State control over the church and would understandably be shocked that one would actually join the State voluntarily. Interestingly in the United States, the State at first refused to allow a church to incorporate because there were godly civil leaders at that time with understanding that the civil government has no business ruling over church matters.

All that to say that it is clear though that one could still be totally committed to a body of believers and minister among them wholeheartedly without signing on the dotted line. And requiring one to go against one’s conscience on an issue that is not clear, by any means, in the Bible is unconscionable. To call it sin because one has a disagreement with the elders on an issue that is not a clear biblical teaching and for the elders to lord their authority over a believer in this matter refusing them their liberty in Christ would be reprehensible to me.

but this is mine

dmarvin811.blogspot.com

A list of verses to prove this

In my blog I write: That is why they drove the planes into the towers, because they believed they could “do something to earn” heaven, but they were wrong and most all religions are wrong. Jesus even had the harshest words for the scribes and Pharisees. The mere fact there are different denominations negates the one true way as talked about in Jeremiah 32:38-40.

I go on to say: We are to look to Jesus for leadership, not man. The Bible says to evaluate everything to see if it is of God by its fruit, good tree = good fruit; a bad tree can never bear good fruit. We don’t even have to address the Catholic Church and the mass pedophiles, and the crusades to determine the fruit, it is obvious.

God’s word declares that this is God’s plan of salvation; 1. Hear the WORD of God. 2. Believe that Jesus is the Messiah. 3. Repent of your ways that are contrary to God’s will. 4. Be Baptized INTO Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 5. Remain faithful to the Covenant you have made with God.

Church or building is not part of this plan at all.

You wrote in the article: “In the book of Acts, much of the terminology fits only with the concept of formal church membership. Phrases such as “the whole congregation” (6:5)”

In KJV and Darby and Young’s Literal it says “pleased the whole multitude” or “pleasing before all the multitude” which is very different. It all comes down to presupposition, if your presupposition is that we must attend a church then you will find things to agree to that. The writers of the KJV had a presupposition that we attend church but that was detrimental to the translating. The Bible never even has the word “church’ in it at all, ever. Ekklesia translates to assembly, not even “the assembly” either. Greek word “kyridakon” which means religious meeting place is not even in the Bible.

Lets take the Sabbath also in Genesis 2:2-3 “And God had finished on the seventh day his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and hallowed it, because that on it he rested from all his work which God had created in making it.”

He rested, not because he was tired but that the work was complete. Now we have a completion in Jesus and we are in His rest.

Hebrews 4:1 “Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.”

Hebrews 4:9-11 “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”

Jesus is the Sabbath, the completion not a Saturday or Sunday. We are complete in Christ, nothing more is required for salvation it ends in Christ. Not a man made building and established hierarchy.

As Christians though, we are never forget The Great Commission.

For Him +†+,
Dan

… and if you don’t like something about the church, show your commitment by finding another church or starting your own?

… and if you don’t like something about the church, but stay and work to see it become more biblical you’re not being faithful because your name’s not on a list?

Discipline will probably be addressed tomorrow. If the question about why you can’t discipline a non-member is not addressed tomorrow, ask it again.

Thanks,

Jesse

Just about the most common call Grace gets is from people around the country who don’t have a good church, wondering what to do. I have sympathy for your struggle. This is why Grace, and John, are so committed to training pastors. Nevertheless, I would urge you to find the best church you can, and join it whole-heartedly. Even if it is flawed, you really should use your best discernment in finding the best of the available choices—or move somewhere where there is a good church.
If you are not committed to a local body, even if it is as flawed as Corinth, you really are missing out on the blessings which come from being united to a church and their leaders.

Jesse

I would have strong reservations if you were asked to be rebaptized in order to join a church. If it really is a first baptist church that is asking you to be rebaptized (which I find hard to beleive), I’d love to hear more about it. If you were truly saved when you were baptized, you should not be rebaptized to become a member.

Thanks,
Jesse

Church Elders: May we ask why?

Roman Authority: In the very near future we will have need of fresh meat for the lions and fuel for the street lamps.

Church Elders: Maybe we should reconsider this membership roll thing …