Comments on: The Rich, Young, Evangelized, and Lost Ruler http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/ A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:54:00 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Robert http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/comment-page-1/#comment-53840 Robert Mon, 03 Sep 2007 13:19:23 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/#comment-53840 If I could chime in here a bit... I too see Jesus as doing the following: "18 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. (First he corrects the Rich young ruler's understanding of who's good. The rich young ruler will show his proud heart in the next verse or two.) 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’ ” 21 And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.” (So Jesus begins his "evangelism" by using the commandments as the bible says "the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ" "..that their mouths may be stopped and the whole world would become guilty before God" and notice the rich young rulers response "I've keep them" of course he didn't but he had a proud heart thinking he was good. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble) 22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” (So Jesus again points him to the essence of the 1st and 2nd commandments, this guys' God was his riches) 23 But when he heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich. (The ruler was still loving money over God and Jesus did not pursue it further. The mans heart was as proud as when the conversation started, no need to throw pearls before swine) I think that this parable is a great example of how the law is used to prepare the heart of the unregenerate. You're either proud and think you're good or you recognize that you are a sinner and in need of salvation. If I could chime in here a bit…

I too see Jesus as doing the following:

“18 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.

(First he corrects the Rich young ruler’s understanding of who’s good. The rich young ruler will show his proud heart in the next verse or two.)

20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’ ” 21 And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.”

(So Jesus begins his “evangelism” by using the commandments as the bible says “the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ” “..that their mouths may be stopped and the whole world would become guilty before God” and notice the rich young rulers response “I’ve keep them” of course he didn’t but he had a proud heart thinking he was good. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble)

22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

(So Jesus again points him to the essence of the 1st and 2nd commandments, this guys’ God was his riches)
23 But when he heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich.

(The ruler was still loving money over God and Jesus did not pursue it further. The mans heart was as proud as when the conversation started, no need to throw pearls before swine)

I think that this parable is a great example of how the law is used to prepare the heart of the unregenerate. You’re either proud and think you’re good or you recognize that you are a sinner and in need of salvation.

]]> By: Lou Martuneac http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/comment-page-1/#comment-51290 Lou Martuneac Tue, 28 Aug 2007 02:48:21 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/#comment-51290 Jesse: I am gojng to visit this article tomorrow, too late this evening. I am going to address some of your notes on the Lord's use of the Law, and your final paragraph. Jazzy Cat made a good observation above. J. Moorhead- You may want to re-examine "Free Grace theology." If you refer to the Zane Hodges FG theology I'll join you in condemning it. There has been a huge fracture in the FG community. Most of the theologically balanced men have departed the Grace Evangelical Society (Hodges/Wilkin) camp over the "<i>Crossless</i>" interpretation of the Gospel coming from Hodges and the GES. Kind regards, LM Jesse:

I am gojng to visit this article tomorrow, too late this evening. I am going to address some of your notes on the Lord’s use of the Law, and your final paragraph.

Jazzy Cat made a good observation above.

J. Moorhead- You may want to re-examine “Free Grace theology.” If you refer to the Zane Hodges FG theology I’ll join you in condemning it.

There has been a huge fracture in the FG community. Most of the theologically balanced men have departed the Grace Evangelical Society (Hodges/Wilkin) camp over the “Crossless” interpretation of the Gospel coming from Hodges and the GES.

Kind regards,

LM

]]> By: kristine http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/comment-page-1/#comment-50189 kristine Fri, 24 Aug 2007 20:02:29 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/#comment-50189 This gospel we proclaim flies so offensively in the face of depraved humanity; on an individual as well as a cultural level. But I've learned in my own personal evangelism experiences that if I don't firmly set out Jesus' call of self-denial and surrender of the will, the message I'm trying to give, suddenly loses it's significance with the hearer. While I'm talking with someone, sharing this offensive message, it's amazing to me how the lost soul can seemingly, so desperately crave the radical call to self-denial and salvation outside him/herself; and yet be so repelled and arrogant in their rejection of it, at the same time. It's as though they recognize "Christianity-Lite", generally speaking, for the "fluff" that it is. No questions here; my theological mind can sort out the seeming conundrum, but when I'm in the heat of battle-so to speak-I continue to be amazed by it all. This gospel we proclaim flies so offensively in the face of depraved humanity; on an individual as well as a cultural level. But I’ve learned in my own personal evangelism experiences that if I don’t firmly set out Jesus’ call of self-denial and surrender of the will, the message I’m trying to give, suddenly loses it’s significance with the hearer. While I’m talking with someone, sharing this offensive message, it’s amazing to me how the lost soul can seemingly, so desperately crave the radical call to self-denial and salvation outside him/herself; and yet be so repelled and arrogant in their rejection of it, at the same time. It’s as though they recognize “Christianity-Lite”, generally speaking, for the “fluff” that it is. No questions here; my theological mind can sort out the seeming conundrum, but when I’m in the heat of battle-so to speak-I continue to be amazed by it all.

]]> By: Jesse Johnson http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/comment-page-1/#comment-50148 Jesse Johnson Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:29:48 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/#comment-50148 Jazzy Cat, I agree that the call to treasure Christ above everything else is for disciples. But, Jesus gave it to this ruler. Jesus did not start with justification, but with the issues of the heart: if you don't treasure Christ, you are not saved. And the man walked away... Jazzy Cat,

I agree that the call to treasure Christ above everything else is for disciples. But, Jesus gave it to this ruler. Jesus did not start with justification, but with the issues of the heart: if you don’t treasure Christ, you are not saved. And the man walked away…

]]> By: Jazzy Cat http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/comment-page-1/#comment-50016 Jazzy Cat Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:36:39 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/#comment-50016 (we would start calling people to deny their life, and follow Christ.) This is certainly a message of sanctification that new converts should here, but shouldn't evangelism first give the message of justification through grace? (we would start calling people to deny their life, and follow Christ.)

This is certainly a message of sanctification that new converts should here, but shouldn’t evangelism first give the message of justification through grace?

]]> By: Steve Scott http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/comment-page-1/#comment-49978 Steve Scott Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:28:38 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/#comment-49978 My view of this passage is a bit different, too. His question of Jesus might have been sincere, and Jesus helped him to discover the answer. When Jesus listed the commandments from the second table, he listed only five of the six, then the summary "you shall love your neighbor as yourself." He gave him a hint by leaving out the one that was his problem: coveting. The ruler should have known this, and admitted to keeping the five Jesus listed. Jesus did offer him life by asking him to sell his goods and give to the poor. If I could read between the lines, this man probably coveted by never giving to the poor. I think Jesus carried the law to its conclusion for this man. He could make no argument against the law saying he shouldn't covet. My view of this passage is a bit different, too. His question of Jesus might have been sincere, and Jesus helped him to discover the answer. When Jesus listed the commandments from the second table, he listed only five of the six, then the summary “you shall love your neighbor as yourself.” He gave him a hint by leaving out the one that was his problem: coveting. The ruler should have known this, and admitted to keeping the five Jesus listed. Jesus did offer him life by asking him to sell his goods and give to the poor.

If I could read between the lines, this man probably coveted by never giving to the poor. I think Jesus carried the law to its conclusion for this man. He could make no argument against the law saying he shouldn’t covet.

]]> By: Mark D Cercone http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/comment-page-1/#comment-49965 Mark D Cercone Fri, 24 Aug 2007 04:42:44 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/#comment-49965 This article falls into a conversation I had with someone in my church today. It was about how arguments are formed around cultural framing and certain opposing ideals they profess. Today, when we work with apologetics, it seems like the culture has created the idea that faith is opposed by reason. As if there is enough reason in the world to detract people away from the truth and Jesus Christ. In many circles throughout society, reasoning based upon worldly ideals has created much doubt in the minds of people. In fact it has caused many to become so distracted from the truth that reason only has become the dominant mindset in the world today. Yet when you read the scripture, this cultural framing does not exist. Instead the opposing ideals throughout the Bible are always shown to be faith opposed by unbelief. This article of the young ruler clearly shows how Jesus put the issue of faith before him and forced the issue of belief, not the issue of reason. It was not a conversation on whether there was enough reason to convince him to sell all of his riches. Today apologetics have fallen into the cultural framing of the world. It has fallen into a logic chess game, forcing the issue of salvation with others based upon reason. But this has happened because the world has become a reason dominated world and it is the language it speaks. We must get back to framing the argument around how it was intended to be framed—faith versus unbelief. Great article. Thanks for the insight by all who has participated in this forum. It has edified me tremendously. This article falls into a conversation I had with someone in my church today. It was about how arguments are formed around cultural framing and certain opposing ideals they profess.

Today, when we work with apologetics, it seems like the culture has created the idea that faith is opposed by reason. As if there is enough reason in the world to detract people away from the truth and Jesus Christ. In many circles throughout society, reasoning based upon worldly ideals has created much doubt in the minds of people. In fact it has caused many to become so distracted from the truth that reason only has become the dominant mindset in the world today.

Yet when you read the scripture, this cultural framing does not exist. Instead the opposing ideals throughout the Bible are always shown to be faith opposed by unbelief. This article of the young ruler clearly shows how Jesus put the issue of faith before him and forced the issue of belief, not the issue of reason. It was not a conversation on whether there was enough reason to convince him to sell all of his riches.

Today apologetics have fallen into the cultural framing of the world. It has fallen into a logic chess game, forcing the issue of salvation with others based upon reason. But this has happened because the world has become a reason dominated world and it is the language it speaks.

We must get back to framing the argument around how it was intended to be framed—faith versus unbelief.

Great article. Thanks for the insight by all who has participated in this forum. It has edified me tremendously.

]]> By: Jonathan Moorhead http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/comment-page-1/#comment-49949 Jonathan Moorhead Fri, 24 Aug 2007 01:29:23 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/#comment-49949 I love this story because it totally flies in the face of the so-called "Free Grace" theology. I love this story because it totally flies in the face of the so-called “Free Grace” theology.

]]> By: Hal http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/comment-page-1/#comment-49936 Hal Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:13:51 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/#comment-49936 Great article. It challenged my own evangelism conversations which are often focused on the benefit of salvation to the person I am speaking to rather than on the cost of the decision to follow Christ. What are your thoughts on the Way of the Master? Would you include this in under the category of modern evangelism? Great article. It challenged my own evangelism conversations which are often focused on the benefit of salvation to the person I am speaking to rather than on the cost of the decision to follow Christ. What are your thoughts on the Way of the Master? Would you include this in under the category of modern evangelism?

]]> By: Jon Denney http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/comment-page-1/#comment-49932 Jon Denney Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:25:30 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/23/the-rich-young-evangelized-and-lost-ruler/#comment-49932 As I read your article, I saw the same points raised by Rob and Allen. I did not see Jesus setting aside the Law but simply bringing up another point in the Law (covetousness) that would accomplish what Paul said in Romans 3:19--that his mouth would be stopped and that he would become guilty before God. Money had become the young ruler's idol and, of course, he must turn from his idol in order to serve the living and true God. I also did not see Jesus designing His words to drive the young man away. They were simply the demands of the Gospel, which must either be accepted or rejected. Unfortunately, he rejected. Thanks for bringing these things out for discussion! Grace and peace. Jon As I read your article, I saw the same points raised by Rob and Allen.

I did not see Jesus setting aside the Law but simply bringing up another point in the Law (covetousness) that would accomplish what Paul said in Romans 3:19–that his mouth would be stopped and that he would become guilty before God.

Money had become the young ruler’s idol and, of course, he must turn from his idol in order to serve the living and true God.

I also did not see Jesus designing His words to drive the young man away. They were simply the demands of the Gospel, which must either be accepted or rejected. Unfortunately, he rejected.

Thanks for bringing these things out for discussion! Grace and peace.
Jon

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