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	<title>Comments on: What Is the Doctrine of Election?</title>
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		<title>By: Lou Martuneac</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/comment-page-1/#comment-47827</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Martuneac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 01:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>NG:

Thanks for clearing that up.  I appreciate it.


LM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NG:</p>
<p>Thanks for clearing that up.  I appreciate it.</p>
<p>LM</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Martuneac</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/comment-page-1/#comment-47711</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Martuneac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/#comment-47711</guid>
		<description>NG:

You wrote, &quot;&lt;i&gt;Let me start by saying I appreciate your responses and will always welcome the opinion of an IFB. Many IFB’s that I know are not Calvinist or Arminian (they consider both to be unbiblical, extracurricular activity); however, the IFB theology is somewhere down the middle&lt;/i&gt;. &quot;

Thanks for the kind note.

I do land &quot;somewhere down the middle.&quot;  I fancy myself a &quot;Calminian,&quot; an &quot;In-Betweenie,&quot; or some hybrid like that.


LM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NG:</p>
<p>You wrote, &#8220;<i>Let me start by saying I appreciate your responses and will always welcome the opinion of an IFB. Many IFB’s that I know are not Calvinist or Arminian (they consider both to be unbiblical, extracurricular activity); however, the IFB theology is somewhere down the middle</i>. &#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks for the kind note.</p>
<p>I do land &#8220;somewhere down the middle.&#8221;  I fancy myself a &#8220;Calminian,&#8221; an &#8220;In-Betweenie,&#8221; or some hybrid like that.</p>
<p>LM</p>
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		<title>By: Nevergall</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/comment-page-1/#comment-47707</link>
		<dc:creator>Nevergall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/#comment-47707</guid>
		<description>&quot;I trust your misquote was an unintentional error on your part&quot;.

Absolutely! Sorry for the lack of professionalism...it was unintentional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I trust your misquote was an unintentional error on your part&#8221;.</p>
<p>Absolutely! Sorry for the lack of professionalism&#8230;it was unintentional.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Martuneac</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/comment-page-1/#comment-47678</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Martuneac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/#comment-47678</guid>
		<description>Hi NG:

If you are going to ask a question based on what I write, you need to ask your question based on exactly what I write.  

Just one word change can skew the entire meaning of a statement.  See the following.

You wrote, &quot;In the above quote you (&lt;i&gt;Lou&lt;/i&gt;) mentioned &#039;that all &lt;b&gt;can&lt;/b&gt; come and be saved&#039;. I do not dispute that many will come; however, please refer me to where it states all &lt;b&gt;will&lt;/b&gt; come AND be saved.&quot;

All mankind &quot;&lt;b&gt;can come&lt;/b&gt;,&quot; not all &quot;&lt;b&gt;will come&lt;/b&gt;.&quot;

I trust your misquote was an unintentional error on your part.

Thanks,


LM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi NG:</p>
<p>If you are going to ask a question based on what I write, you need to ask your question based on exactly what I write.  </p>
<p>Just one word change can skew the entire meaning of a statement.  See the following.</p>
<p>You wrote, &#8220;In the above quote you (<i>Lou</i>) mentioned &#8216;that all <b>can</b> come and be saved&#8217;. I do not dispute that many will come; however, please refer me to where it states all <b>will</b> come AND be saved.&#8221;</p>
<p>All mankind &#8220;<b>can come</b>,&#8221; not all &#8220;<b>will come</b>.&#8221;</p>
<p>I trust your misquote was an unintentional error on your part.</p>
<p>Thanks,</p>
<p>LM</p>
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		<title>By: Nevergall</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/comment-page-1/#comment-47446</link>
		<dc:creator>Nevergall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 04:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/#comment-47446</guid>
		<description>The first part of the parable (Wedding Feast, Matthew 22:1-10) seems to be a continuation of theme that started in the previous chapter (that the heirs of the kingdom have rejected it). This resulted in the kingdom being offered to others; and God&#039;s servants where sent to preach the gospel (the invitation) to all people (v.9).

The second part (Matthew 22:11-14) seems to suggest that receiving an invitation to God&#039;s kingdom does not guarantee entrance; one must be clothed properly (Isaiah 61:10).

Clothed properly?  How was he to know the dress code for the party?  I picture people coming in off the street after receiving the invitation and being given proper attire at the door by the king.  MacArthur explains best when he states &quot;this man&#039;s lack of a proper garment indicates that he has purposely rejected the king&#039;s own gracious provision&quot;. 

Although everyone who hears the gospel has been invited, only those clothed in Christ&#039;s righteousness are actually presentable to God. 

My original issue was with the assumption that &quot;all will come AND be saved&quot;.

The parable describes a man who was invited to the party; came to the party; and was bounced from the party.  So, it seems apparent that all who come are not necessarily saved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first part of the parable (Wedding Feast, Matthew 22:1-10) seems to be a continuation of theme that started in the previous chapter (that the heirs of the kingdom have rejected it). This resulted in the kingdom being offered to others; and God&#8217;s servants where sent to preach the gospel (the invitation) to all people (v.9).</p>
<p>The second part (Matthew 22:11-14) seems to suggest that receiving an invitation to God&#8217;s kingdom does not guarantee entrance; one must be clothed properly (Isaiah 61:10).</p>
<p>Clothed properly?  How was he to know the dress code for the party?  I picture people coming in off the street after receiving the invitation and being given proper attire at the door by the king.  MacArthur explains best when he states &#8220;this man&#8217;s lack of a proper garment indicates that he has purposely rejected the king&#8217;s own gracious provision&#8221;. </p>
<p>Although everyone who hears the gospel has been invited, only those clothed in Christ&#8217;s righteousness are actually presentable to God. </p>
<p>My original issue was with the assumption that &#8220;all will come AND be saved&#8221;.</p>
<p>The parable describes a man who was invited to the party; came to the party; and was bounced from the party.  So, it seems apparent that all who come are not necessarily saved.</p>
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		<title>By: David Summer</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/comment-page-1/#comment-47426</link>
		<dc:creator>David Summer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 02:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/#comment-47426</guid>
		<description>Nevergall,
You wrote “of those that do respond, not all will be accepted (Matthew 20:1-16, Matthew 22:1-14).”
My take on these passages for what it’s worth – 
Matthew 20:1-16 
I personally see Jesus’ sense of humor displayed here. The context immediately preceding and following this passage is one of the disciples (Peter, James, and John named – but most likely all 12 were of similar mind – just like you and I probably would be if we were in their sandals.) worrying about their place of order in the Kingdom. It’s not a discussion of initial membership, but of Believers/Disciples having a proper attitude of serving out of gratitude and not with an eye to potential rewards. 

Context preceding Matthew 20:1-16:
Matthew 19:27-30 “Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name&#039;s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.”

I emphasized Peter’s “what shall we have therefore” because it caps off the “What’s in it for me?” question. I emphasized Jesus’ “and shall inherit everlasting life.” because it caps off His response. To me He is saying, Peter, you’re going to get a big ol’ throne, you’re going to be a hangin judge, get a big ol mansion, hang out with more folk than you can feed in a month of Sundays, sit on more acreage than Texas; all of this a hundred times over!!! Oh, and by the way,  you get everlasting life too. 

Point of Matthew 20:1-16:
He then proceeds to drive home this point with the illustration of the Laborers in the Vineyard. I believe His point is, hey guys, it is not “look how long I worked or how hard I worked, or how successful (fruit-bearing) I appeared.” The point is you each get a penny. You each get everlasting life. Don’t be whining “these last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day” but be grateful. You get everlasting life too.

Context following Matthew 20:1-16:
Matthew 20:18-19  Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
I take this directive as: Look guys, I’m going to be betrayed, condemned, mocked, scourged, and crucified – and all you’all can do is squabble about who is first and who is last!!! Grow up! Matthew 20:20-28 essentially boils down to “Stop this squabbling about position and start ministering to folks!” 

Thus, the “many called, few chosen” in context here is addressing the fact that their will be a variance of rewards which will appear to be out of whack proportionately with the Christian’s situation on Earth (time and effort in the vineyard), almost as one is favored over another; but are totally right (no wrong), and good, and lawful as granted by the Householder. 

Moving on to Matthew 22:1-14.
A new day has dawned. (Mt 21:18) We are now removed a number of miles and hours from immediate context of Matthew 20:1-16. Let’s check out the context of Matthew 22:1-14:
I see Jesus’ sense of humor again but directed at the Chief Priests and Pharisees this time. Not the Disciples. The context immediately preceding and following this passage is one of almost baiting the Priests and Pharisees. 
He had cleared out the Temple the evening before and they were powerless to stop Him. This morning He’s physically hungry and ends up cursing the fig tree due to its symbolic representation of the nation’s spiritual situation. The Chief Priests and Pharisees have created a system that looks good but has no spiritual fruit. Soon after He arrives at the Temple and the Priests and Pharisees start right of with challenging His authority. He responds by essentially setting them up for the take down that we’ll find in Mt. 22:1-14.

Context preceding Matthew 22:1-14:
Mt 21:18-22 A new day dawns, He curses the fig tree on His way to the Temple.
Mt 21:23- 32 The Priests and Pharisee’s challenge His authority and He baits them with the left jab of the “Whence is John’s baptism” question. When they duck it, He sets them up with the Two Sons parable. The right hook punch here is the jaw dropping statement that the Publicans and Harlots (2nd son) will go into the Kingdom before the Priests and Pharisees. (1st son) 
Mt 21:33-46 He rolls His hip and swings away again with another parable. Wham, the parable of the Murderous Husbandmen hits its mark! Matthew 21:45 “And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.” They perceived that He spake of them. I can almost read their thoughts myself… Psst, hey guys, do ya s’pose He means us here? Tell me God doesn’t have a sense of humor!

Point of Matthew 22:1-14:
A foundational basic principal of Bible Study is context and plain sense. When the context indicates a simple, plain sense, we don’t need to overwork the text. We simply need to take the Word for what It says. As much as I would like to align this story eschatologically with the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, it would be overworking the plain sense of the text.
Simply stated, the point of Matthew 22:1-14, is the Priests and Pharisees and their self-righteous followers were the original invitees of the wedding but they would be replaced with the Good and Bad bid to come from the highways. Even if they attempted to crash the party, they would be cast out. 

Context following Matthew 22:1-14:
Matthew 22:15-22 The Pharisees continue their wicked attempts to entangle Him, tempt Him, and discredit Him. All to no avail. They leave in frustration.

Thus, the “many called, few chosen” in context here is addressing the fact that there were many Priests and Pharisees in Israel who thought they should be rewarded of God for their sanctimonious deeds; but would be replaced instead of rewarded. Further insult is added to injury in that the preferred replacements were drawn from the “low-life” ranks of the Publicans and Harlots. Thereby tweaking the noses of the Priests and Pharisees, and giving a wink and a nod to the Disciples as a reminder of His previous day’s lesson. 

The dialogues of Matthew 20:1-16 are primarily between Jesus and His Disciples. The dialogues of Matthew 22:1-14 are primarily between Jesus and His Detractors. Parables that are not explained by Him in the immediate context are for the most part simply teaching stories and not foundation stones for doctrine.

The scripture seems to teach that all are called and few answer by faith alone, apart from works.

Because He Lives,
David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nevergall,<br />
You wrote “of those that do respond, not all will be accepted (Matthew 20:1-16, Matthew 22:1-14).”<br />
My take on these passages for what it’s worth –<br />
Matthew 20:1-16<br />
I personally see Jesus’ sense of humor displayed here. The context immediately preceding and following this passage is one of the disciples (Peter, James, and John named – but most likely all 12 were of similar mind – just like you and I probably would be if we were in their sandals.) worrying about their place of order in the Kingdom. It’s not a discussion of initial membership, but of Believers/Disciples having a proper attitude of serving out of gratitude and not with an eye to potential rewards. </p>
<p>Context preceding Matthew 20:1-16:<br />
Matthew 19:27-30 “Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name&#8217;s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.”</p>
<p>I emphasized Peter’s “what shall we have therefore” because it caps off the “What’s in it for me?” question. I emphasized Jesus’ “and shall inherit everlasting life.” because it caps off His response. To me He is saying, Peter, you’re going to get a big ol’ throne, you’re going to be a hangin judge, get a big ol mansion, hang out with more folk than you can feed in a month of Sundays, sit on more acreage than Texas; all of this a hundred times over!!! Oh, and by the way,  you get everlasting life too. </p>
<p>Point of Matthew 20:1-16:<br />
He then proceeds to drive home this point with the illustration of the Laborers in the Vineyard. I believe His point is, hey guys, it is not “look how long I worked or how hard I worked, or how successful (fruit-bearing) I appeared.” The point is you each get a penny. You each get everlasting life. Don’t be whining “these last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day” but be grateful. You get everlasting life too.</p>
<p>Context following Matthew 20:1-16:<br />
Matthew 20:18-19  Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.<br />
I take this directive as: Look guys, I’m going to be betrayed, condemned, mocked, scourged, and crucified – and all you’all can do is squabble about who is first and who is last!!! Grow up! Matthew 20:20-28 essentially boils down to “Stop this squabbling about position and start ministering to folks!” </p>
<p>Thus, the “many called, few chosen” in context here is addressing the fact that their will be a variance of rewards which will appear to be out of whack proportionately with the Christian’s situation on Earth (time and effort in the vineyard), almost as one is favored over another; but are totally right (no wrong), and good, and lawful as granted by the Householder. </p>
<p>Moving on to Matthew 22:1-14.<br />
A new day has dawned. (Mt 21:18) We are now removed a number of miles and hours from immediate context of Matthew 20:1-16. Let’s check out the context of Matthew 22:1-14:<br />
I see Jesus’ sense of humor again but directed at the Chief Priests and Pharisees this time. Not the Disciples. The context immediately preceding and following this passage is one of almost baiting the Priests and Pharisees.<br />
He had cleared out the Temple the evening before and they were powerless to stop Him. This morning He’s physically hungry and ends up cursing the fig tree due to its symbolic representation of the nation’s spiritual situation. The Chief Priests and Pharisees have created a system that looks good but has no spiritual fruit. Soon after He arrives at the Temple and the Priests and Pharisees start right of with challenging His authority. He responds by essentially setting them up for the take down that we’ll find in Mt. 22:1-14.</p>
<p>Context preceding Matthew 22:1-14:<br />
Mt 21:18-22 A new day dawns, He curses the fig tree on His way to the Temple.<br />
Mt 21:23- 32 The Priests and Pharisee’s challenge His authority and He baits them with the left jab of the “Whence is John’s baptism” question. When they duck it, He sets them up with the Two Sons parable. The right hook punch here is the jaw dropping statement that the Publicans and Harlots (2nd son) will go into the Kingdom before the Priests and Pharisees. (1st son)<br />
Mt 21:33-46 He rolls His hip and swings away again with another parable. Wham, the parable of the Murderous Husbandmen hits its mark! Matthew 21:45 “And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.” They perceived that He spake of them. I can almost read their thoughts myself… Psst, hey guys, do ya s’pose He means us here? Tell me God doesn’t have a sense of humor!</p>
<p>Point of Matthew 22:1-14:<br />
A foundational basic principal of Bible Study is context and plain sense. When the context indicates a simple, plain sense, we don’t need to overwork the text. We simply need to take the Word for what It says. As much as I would like to align this story eschatologically with the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, it would be overworking the plain sense of the text.<br />
Simply stated, the point of Matthew 22:1-14, is the Priests and Pharisees and their self-righteous followers were the original invitees of the wedding but they would be replaced with the Good and Bad bid to come from the highways. Even if they attempted to crash the party, they would be cast out. </p>
<p>Context following Matthew 22:1-14:<br />
Matthew 22:15-22 The Pharisees continue their wicked attempts to entangle Him, tempt Him, and discredit Him. All to no avail. They leave in frustration.</p>
<p>Thus, the “many called, few chosen” in context here is addressing the fact that there were many Priests and Pharisees in Israel who thought they should be rewarded of God for their sanctimonious deeds; but would be replaced instead of rewarded. Further insult is added to injury in that the preferred replacements were drawn from the “low-life” ranks of the Publicans and Harlots. Thereby tweaking the noses of the Priests and Pharisees, and giving a wink and a nod to the Disciples as a reminder of His previous day’s lesson. </p>
<p>The dialogues of Matthew 20:1-16 are primarily between Jesus and His Disciples. The dialogues of Matthew 22:1-14 are primarily between Jesus and His Detractors. Parables that are not explained by Him in the immediate context are for the most part simply teaching stories and not foundation stones for doctrine.</p>
<p>The scripture seems to teach that all are called and few answer by faith alone, apart from works.</p>
<p>Because He Lives,<br />
David</p>
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		<title>By: Nevergall</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/comment-page-1/#comment-47050</link>
		<dc:creator>Nevergall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/#comment-47050</guid>
		<description>LM,

“Also, as you noted, the numerous invitations in the Bible that all can come and be saved, unravel Calvinism’s “Unconditional Election.”

Let me start by saying I appreciate your responses and will always welcome the opinion of an IFB.  Many IFB’s that I know are not Calvinist or Arminian (they consider both to be unbiblical, extracurricular activity); however, the IFB theology is somewhere down the middle.  My wife and I attended an IFB church for a period and we thoroughly loved and enjoyed the fellowship with its members and still actively communicate with the Senior Pastor.

In the above quote you mentioned “that all can come and be saved”.  I do not dispute that many will come; however, please refer me to where it states all will come AND be saved.

There is no doubt that the invitation is for everyone; however, not everyone will respond to the invitation and of those that do respond, not all will be accepted (Matthew 20:1-16, Matthew 22:1-14).  So, I fail to see the connection between all can come AND be saved.


Nevergall</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LM,</p>
<p>“Also, as you noted, the numerous invitations in the Bible that all can come and be saved, unravel Calvinism’s “Unconditional Election.”</p>
<p>Let me start by saying I appreciate your responses and will always welcome the opinion of an IFB.  Many IFB’s that I know are not Calvinist or Arminian (they consider both to be unbiblical, extracurricular activity); however, the IFB theology is somewhere down the middle.  My wife and I attended an IFB church for a period and we thoroughly loved and enjoyed the fellowship with its members and still actively communicate with the Senior Pastor.</p>
<p>In the above quote you mentioned “that all can come and be saved”.  I do not dispute that many will come; however, please refer me to where it states all will come AND be saved.</p>
<p>There is no doubt that the invitation is for everyone; however, not everyone will respond to the invitation and of those that do respond, not all will be accepted (Matthew 20:1-16, Matthew 22:1-14).  So, I fail to see the connection between all can come AND be saved.</p>
<p>Nevergall</p>
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		<title>By: Lou Martuneac</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/comment-page-1/#comment-46725</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou Martuneac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/#comment-46725</guid>
		<description>Terry:

Good post, well thought out and presented.

The Calvinist is determined to protect the Sovereignty of God to the point of eliminating the twin truth of the Free Will of Man.

Also, as you noted, the numerous invitations in the Bible that all can come and be saved, unravel Calvinism&#039;s &quot;Unconditional Election.&quot;

LM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terry:</p>
<p>Good post, well thought out and presented.</p>
<p>The Calvinist is determined to protect the Sovereignty of God to the point of eliminating the twin truth of the Free Will of Man.</p>
<p>Also, as you noted, the numerous invitations in the Bible that all can come and be saved, unravel Calvinism&#8217;s &#8220;Unconditional Election.&#8221;</p>
<p>LM</p>
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		<title>By: vynette</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/comment-page-1/#comment-46359</link>
		<dc:creator>vynette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 14:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/#comment-46359</guid>
		<description>The &quot;elect&quot; are not chosen for greater favour but rather for greater responsibility. They are not chosen to live while others die. Rather, they are God&#039;s instruments for fulfilling the Abrahamic promise to &quot;spiritually&quot; bless all nations with the true knowledge of God. Consider the fate of the &quot;elect:&quot; the Israelite people as a whole, the prophets, the apostles, Jesus of Nazareth... 

In the time of the patriarchs, God&#039;s grace, his free gift, was manifested in terms of &quot;material&quot; blessings - land, sheep, cattle etc. The Law of Moses, which promised material blessings for obedience on a national scale, did not produce the required results on a national scale. 

The prophet Isaiah foresaw that an enduring and persistent character able to withstand the forces of opposition to God could only be produced by suffering.  His &quot;suffering servant&quot; theme finds its fullest expression in Jesus of Nazareth - perfectly obedient to the will of God, the light to the Gentiles, the blessing to the nations, the one for the salvation of the many. Jesus learned obedience through suffering.

Jesus&#039; demonstration of a perfect love that will lay down its life for others is the great drawing power of Christianity, the great &quot;spiritual&quot; blessing to the nations. This blessing has been brought about by suffering and death. How can followers of Jesus claim that the &quot;elect&quot; are chosen to live while the &quot;non-elect&quot; die? Jesus of Nazareth died so that the &quot;non-elect&quot; may live?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;elect&#8221; are not chosen for greater favour but rather for greater responsibility. They are not chosen to live while others die. Rather, they are God&#8217;s instruments for fulfilling the Abrahamic promise to &#8220;spiritually&#8221; bless all nations with the true knowledge of God. Consider the fate of the &#8220;elect:&#8221; the Israelite people as a whole, the prophets, the apostles, Jesus of Nazareth&#8230; </p>
<p>In the time of the patriarchs, God&#8217;s grace, his free gift, was manifested in terms of &#8220;material&#8221; blessings &#8211; land, sheep, cattle etc. The Law of Moses, which promised material blessings for obedience on a national scale, did not produce the required results on a national scale. </p>
<p>The prophet Isaiah foresaw that an enduring and persistent character able to withstand the forces of opposition to God could only be produced by suffering.  His &#8220;suffering servant&#8221; theme finds its fullest expression in Jesus of Nazareth &#8211; perfectly obedient to the will of God, the light to the Gentiles, the blessing to the nations, the one for the salvation of the many. Jesus learned obedience through suffering.</p>
<p>Jesus&#8217; demonstration of a perfect love that will lay down its life for others is the great drawing power of Christianity, the great &#8220;spiritual&#8221; blessing to the nations. This blessing has been brought about by suffering and death. How can followers of Jesus claim that the &#8220;elect&#8221; are chosen to live while the &#8220;non-elect&#8221; die? Jesus of Nazareth died so that the &#8220;non-elect&#8221; may live?</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/comment-page-1/#comment-46279</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 11:27:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/08/09/what-is-the-doctrine-of-election/#comment-46279</guid>
		<description>Who can argue that the Bible has many references to the sovereignty of God and how it pertains to man’s salvation.  However, it seems to me that the problem with Calvinism is that it focuses only on the verses that can be use to defend its position.  It’s so easy to skip past the fact that Jesus told Nicodemus that God loved ‘the world’ and that ‘whosoever’ would believe in Him…   I think that we have to be careful in redefining the ‘world’ and ‘whosoever’ to mean only the ones He has elected.   We must not put words into the mouth of our Lord.  But even more, Peter tells us that God is not willing that ‘any’ should perish but that ‘all’ should come to repentance.  I do believe that everyone who comes to God in salvation has been elected, however, I also agree with what I heard Adrian Rogers preach many years ago- “The more doors I knock on the more people I discover who have been elected.”  The plan fact is - Jesus told us to go into ‘all the world’ and preach the gospel to ‘every creature’.  Instead of spending so much of our time and ministry arguing a subject that none of us (John Calvin, John MacArthur, John Doe) will ever fully understand this side of eternity, we need to get busy being obedient to what Jesus clearly commanded us.  We do know for a fact that God wants the whole world to hear His plan of salvation and we need to let the Holy Spirit do the work that only He can do – calling whosoever to repentance and faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who can argue that the Bible has many references to the sovereignty of God and how it pertains to man’s salvation.  However, it seems to me that the problem with Calvinism is that it focuses only on the verses that can be use to defend its position.  It’s so easy to skip past the fact that Jesus told Nicodemus that God loved ‘the world’ and that ‘whosoever’ would believe in Him…   I think that we have to be careful in redefining the ‘world’ and ‘whosoever’ to mean only the ones He has elected.   We must not put words into the mouth of our Lord.  But even more, Peter tells us that God is not willing that ‘any’ should perish but that ‘all’ should come to repentance.  I do believe that everyone who comes to God in salvation has been elected, however, I also agree with what I heard Adrian Rogers preach many years ago- “The more doors I knock on the more people I discover who have been elected.”  The plan fact is &#8211; Jesus told us to go into ‘all the world’ and preach the gospel to ‘every creature’.  Instead of spending so much of our time and ministry arguing a subject that none of us (John Calvin, John MacArthur, John Doe) will ever fully understand this side of eternity, we need to get busy being obedient to what Jesus clearly commanded us.  We do know for a fact that God wants the whole world to hear His plan of salvation and we need to let the Holy Spirit do the work that only He can do – calling whosoever to repentance and faith.</p>
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