Be honest with your quotes please.

He is contrasting between the “cheap lip service confession” and the fruit of a truly regenerated heart.

“Don’t believe anyone who says it’s easy to become a Christian. Salvation for sinners cost God His own Son; it cost God’s Son His life, and it’ll cost you the same thing. Salvation isn’t the result of an intellectual exercise. It comes from a life lived in obedience and service to Christ as revealed in the Scripture; it’s the fruit of actions, not intentions. … The life we live, not the words we speak, determines our eternal destiny.” John MacArthur, “Hard to Believe”, page 93.

His comment that salvation is the result of a “life lived in obedience and service to Christ…” sounds very process oriented.

Wow, your really flailing now

First, you use this as your proof text for the believing Christian being reconciled to God directly (without confession)and now because your house of cards is falling around you, you have to call in question Simon Magus’ status as a “true Christian”. “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned’” (Mark 16:15–16).

That’s pretty judgmental. Even jsb, who is a fundamentalist like yourself, admitted in an earlier post that Simon was a believer. His/her words: (Simon was a baptized believer (8:13).) You are sounding like the Pharisee Jesus speaks of in Luke 18:9-14, watch out…

It’s funny that now you are the one reading way too much into the “plain reading” you spoke of earlier and injecting pure fiction that Simon was “only jumping on the bandwagon” in order for it to fit into your doctorine. “In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures” (2 Peter 3:15).

The bigger question is..since we see that scripture clearly shows there are mortal and venial sins and we cannot pray for mortal sin how then is the Christian that sins mortally reconciled to God or are they? We only have two options.

1) The Protestant position that the one was has sinned mortally was never “saved” to begin with. If this is true, then there is no such thing as being “saved” since he/she is now lost even though they once believed. What kind of assurance is this??

OR

2) The Catholic position that justification is a process and that Jesus Christ gave his visible body, The Church, the authority to forgive sins in His name (John 20:21-23 and Matt 18:18).

This power was understood as coming from God: “All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation” (2 Cor. 5:18). “So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God” (2 Cor. 5:20).

Tertullian
“[Regarding confession, some] flee from this work as being an exposure of themselves, or they put it off from day to day. I presume they are more mindful of modesty than of salvation, like those who contract a disease in the more shameful parts of the body and shun making themselves known to the physicians; and thus they perish along with their own bashfulness” (Repentance 10:1 [A.D. 203]).

Gerry wrote:
“So as shown, even though Simon Magus had grave matter, he did not have full knowledge or deliberate consent since he did repent.”

The text never shows him repenting. He just didn’t want Peter’s curse upon his head. This was worldy sorrow not godly sorrow. Let’s look at this man’s true character:

Act 8:5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria and proclaimed to them the Christ.
Act 8:6 And the crowds with one accord paid attention to what was being said by Philip when they heard him and saw the signs that he did.
Act 8:7 For unclean spirits, crying out with a loud voice, came out of many who had them, and many who were paralyzed or lame were healed.
Act 8:8 So there was much joy in that city.
Act 8:9 But there was a man named Simon, who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of Samaria, saying that he himself was somebody great.
Act 8:10 They all paid attention to him, from the least to the greatest, saying, “This man is the power of God that is called Great.”
Act 8:11 And they paid attention to him because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic.
Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:13 Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.

Philip came and ruined his good thing that he had going, so Simon jumped on the bandwagon, so to speak. As soon as he found an angle to get himself esteemed again (thinking he could buy the power to give the Holy Spirit) he showed his true colors. Yes, one could say “but he believed!” Believed in what? Even the demons believe Jesus is the Son of God and they shudder!! This man was not a Christian.

Sorry to drag this on even further, but Acts 8 lends no support whatsoever to your position, Gerry.

Gerry wrote:
“So as shown, even though Simon Magus had grave matter, he did not have full knowledge or deliberate consent since he did repent.”

The text never shows him repenting. He just didn’t want Peter’s curse upon his head. This was worldy sorrow not godly sorrow. Let’s look at this man’s true character:

Act 8:5 Philip went down to the city of Samaria and proclaimed to them the Christ.
Act 8:6 And the crowds with one accord paid attention to what was being said by Philip when they heard him and saw the signs that he did.
Act 8:7 For unclean spirits, crying out with a loud voice, came out of many who had them, and many who were paralyzed or lame were healed.
Act 8:8 So there was much joy in that city.
Act 8:9 But there was a man named Simon, who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of Samaria, saying that he himself was somebody great.
Act 8:10 They all paid attention to him, from the least to the greatest, saying, “This man is the power of God that is called Great.”
Act 8:11 And they paid attention to him because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic.
Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:13 Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.

Philip came and ruined his good thing that he had going, so Simon jumped on the bandwagon, so to speak. As soon as he found an angle to get himself esteemed again (thinking he could buy the power to give the Holy Spirit) he showed his true colors. Yes, one could say “but he believed!” Believed in what? Even the demons believe Jesus is the Son of God and they shudder!! This man was not a Christian.

Sorry to drag this on even further, but Acts 8 lends no support whatsoever to your position, Gerry.

You misunderstood what I wrote or I wasn’t clear enough (my wife would tell you that I am not very clear either . I meant that Peter’s comment of “may your money perish with you” was not a damning statement. It was meant to show him the gravity and seriousness of what he said. So if he meant to cast him out as lost, he wouldn’t have said “repent” and “pray for forgiveness”. Peter didn’t contradict himself at all. I have clearly shown “biblically” that in 1 John 5:16-17 it says not to pray for deadly sin, so the fact that Peter tells him to pray shows that it was not deadly, since scripture cannot contradict scripture, right?

So then Peter negated himself? “I know I wrote this in vs. 20, but here comes vs. 22, so don’t worry about that.” — I don’t know about that one. It’s your contention of the mortal vs. venial sin distinction that requires that Peter contradict himself in the next two verses.

Thanks, jsb, for seeking to give the Biblical position on these things at the expense of your own time. I hope many would be helped and guarded as they read this.

God bless you my brother or sister in Christ Sorry, I don’t know if jsb is male or female.. Talk to you soon, I’m sure;-)

Thank you.

I agree with your definition of perish used in verse 20 and would agree with your point if he stopped at that, BUT since he follows with “repent” and “pray for forgiveness” in verse 22 it negates your point. Good dialogue!! Thanks.