Comments on: The Church Versus the World http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/ A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:54:00 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Scott G. http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-32843 Scott G. Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:05:23 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/#comment-32843 I hear in this a call for personal evangelism. That's what is really suffering in current evangelicalism. Our evangelism has been reduced to "Come and see how cool my church is." Frankly, on a personal level non-Christians won't buy gimmicks from a Christian friend. They might get sucked up into the hype of church where they can feel good, but one-on-one, the hype is perceived for the shallowness that it is. It's time for the church to stopping trying to reach the world and time for the saints to proclaim the Gospel to sinners. I hear in this a call for personal evangelism. That’s what is really suffering in current evangelicalism. Our evangelism has been reduced to “Come and see how cool my church is.” Frankly, on a personal level non-Christians won’t buy gimmicks from a Christian friend. They might get sucked up into the hype of church where they can feel good, but one-on-one, the hype is perceived for the shallowness that it is. It’s time for the church to stopping trying to reach the world and time for the saints to proclaim the Gospel to sinners.

]]> By: Puritan lad http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-32558 Puritan lad Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:28:37 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/#comment-32558 Correct. Postmillennialism is not universal. Ezekiel speak of swamps and marshes that will be unaffected by the living waters of the gospel. In the end, however, we shall inherit the earth, "For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea." (Habakkuk 2:14) "All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations shall worship before you. For kingship belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations." (Psalms 22:27-28) Correct. Postmillennialism is not universal. Ezekiel speak of swamps and marshes that will be unaffected by the living waters of the gospel. In the end, however, we shall inherit the earth, “For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD as the waters cover the sea.” (Habakkuk 2:14)

“All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations shall worship before you. For kingship belongs to the LORD, and he rules over the nations.” (Psalms 22:27-28)

]]> By: Mike http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-32382 Mike Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:26:39 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/#comment-32382 Puritan Lad, Thanks for the reply. I want to make sure I understand. So in other words, those who subscribe to "the world" worldview will become smaller in number. .... Such that there still are those who belong to "the world" worldview -- those that will hate us and the true Gospel -- but there's just not as many of them. Do I have that right? MIKE Puritan Lad,

Thanks for the reply. I want to make sure I understand.

So in other words, those who subscribe to “the world” worldview will become smaller in number. …. Such that there still are those who belong to “the world” worldview — those that will hate us and the true Gospel — but there’s just not as many of them. Do I have that right?

MIKE

]]> By: Puritan lad http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-32254 Puritan lad Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:03:07 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/#comment-32254 First of all, a hearty "Amen" to MacArthur's message. The modern church has succumbed to pop-psychology (and we are talking about conservative, Bible-believing churches. The liberal and emergent sects will have to answer for their own folly). A little Jonathan Edwards preaching would be good for the church today. Mike, As a postmillennialist, I will try to answer thjis. The true gospel will never be popular with the "world", defined here as a system opposed to the kingdom of God. When the Bible tells us not to have friendship with "this world", he wasn't talking about a planet or a territory, but rather a worldview. So postmillennialists believe that the gospel will permeate planet earth, yet still not be popular with "the world" worldview. Postmillennialists believe that the gospel will transform the world, not that the world should transform the gospel. First of all, a hearty “Amen” to MacArthur’s message. The modern church has succumbed to pop-psychology (and we are talking about conservative, Bible-believing churches. The liberal and emergent sects will have to answer for their own folly). A little Jonathan Edwards preaching would be good for the church today.

Mike,

As a postmillennialist, I will try to answer thjis. The true gospel will never be popular with the “world”, defined here as a system opposed to the kingdom of God. When the Bible tells us not to have friendship with “this world”, he wasn’t talking about a planet or a territory, but rather a worldview. So postmillennialists believe that the gospel will permeate planet earth, yet still not be popular with “the world” worldview. Postmillennialists believe that the gospel will transform the world, not that the world should transform the gospel.

]]> By: Satan Speaks? : Reformed Geek http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-32196 Satan Speaks? : Reformed Geek Tue, 26 Jun 2007 05:35:00 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/#comment-32196 [...] So what are your thoughts? Are you pragmatic and whatever works is okay? Should the church attempt to be appealing so that the “world” will like us? Pulpit Magazine posted an article earlier titled The Church Versus the World which you might like to read before commenting. [...] [...] So what are your thoughts? Are you pragmatic and whatever works is okay? Should the church attempt to be appealing so that the “world” will like us? Pulpit Magazine posted an article earlier titled The Church Versus the World which you might like to read before commenting. [...]

]]> By: Mike http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-31997 Mike Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:46:54 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/#comment-31997 I have somewhat of an off-topic question. Forgive me if I open the proverbial can of worms here. MacArthur wrote: *********** He further explained: “The world . . . hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil” (John 7:7). In other words, the world’s contempt for Christianity stems from moral, not intellectual, motives: “And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed” (John 3:19-20). That is why no matter how dramatically worldly opinion might vary, Christian truth will never be popular with the world. *********** My question is, "Does postmillennialism contradict this statement?" Do postmillennialists think that through Christian influence the world will eventually become 'something' enough for Christ to return in His kingdom? My understanding of the postmil position comes from the following paragraph that I got from here: http://www.fivesolas.com/esc_chrt.htm ************ According to postmillennialists, there will be universal preaching and acceptance of the Gospel, and a complete and total victory of the kingdom of God, over the forces of Satan and unbelief. Postmillennialism is an optimistic eschatology of the victory grace of God in subduing evil in the world. ************ Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have somewhat of an off-topic question. Forgive me if I open the proverbial can of worms here. MacArthur wrote:

***********
He further explained: “The world . . . hates Me because I testify of it that its works are evil” (John 7:7). In other words, the world’s contempt for Christianity stems from moral, not intellectual, motives: “And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed” (John 3:19-20). That is why no matter how dramatically worldly opinion might vary, Christian truth will never be popular with the world.
***********

My question is, “Does postmillennialism contradict this statement?” Do postmillennialists think that through Christian influence the world will eventually become ’something’ enough for Christ to return in His kingdom? My understanding of the postmil position comes from the following paragraph that I got from here: http://www.fivesolas.com/esc_chrt.htm

************
According to postmillennialists, there will be universal preaching and acceptance of the Gospel, and a complete and total victory of the kingdom of God, over the forces of Satan and unbelief. Postmillennialism is an optimistic eschatology of the victory grace of God in subduing evil in the world.
************

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

]]> By: donsands http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-31978 donsands Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:19:53 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/#comment-31978 The Church is called to be light and salt. We are to glorify God, and our hearts are to be purposed to worship Him in Sprit and truth. We are to be disciples, and discipled. We are to break bread, and be in prayer to our Father in the name of Christ alone. And this will be the same in every culture, though each culture has it's own uniquiness. Culture is not the same as the world, and this is where it gets all mixed up, I think. Unskilled leaders in the Church think the world represents the culture, and they allow ungodliness to be part of our speratedness, instead of walking in faith in all holiness and godliness within the culture we exist, and then we will be fishers of men, as our Lord called us to be. This will always be the great struggle within the Church. And good posts like this one help to keep us from wandering outside of God's boundaries. The Church is called to be light and salt. We are to glorify God, and our hearts are to be purposed to worship Him in Sprit and truth. We are to be disciples, and discipled. We are to break bread, and be in prayer to our Father in the name of Christ alone. And this will be the same in every culture, though each culture has it’s own uniquiness. Culture is not the same as the world, and this is where it gets all mixed up, I think. Unskilled leaders in the Church think the world represents the culture, and they allow ungodliness to be part of our speratedness, instead of walking in faith in all holiness and godliness within the culture we exist, and then we will be fishers of men, as our Lord called us to be.

This will always be the great struggle within the Church. And good posts like this one help to keep us from wandering outside of God’s boundaries.

]]> By: kristinethraen http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-31952 kristinethraen Mon, 25 Jun 2007 16:04:25 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/#comment-31952 This was really great; it seems that the church has never been more "fuzzy" about the true gospel of Christ. I listened to an old recording from The White Horse Inn a while ago, which was an interview between the show's host and Robert Schuller. I found the transcript this weekend (not in its entirety, but still a rather good chunk of it) and threw it up on my site. It's very telling, and as such, heartbreaking. This was really great; it seems that the church has never been more “fuzzy” about the true gospel of Christ. I listened to an old recording from The White Horse Inn a while ago, which was an interview between the show’s host and Robert Schuller. I found the transcript this weekend (not in its entirety, but still a rather good chunk of it) and threw it up on my site. It’s very telling, and as such, heartbreaking.

]]> By: David http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-31945 David Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:56:30 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/#comment-31945 I saw Rick Warren on Nightline the other night and he said something to the effect that if changing the approach and causing some rifts in the church was what it took to "reach" those for whom Christ died than it's worth it. The problem with him and Osteen, et al, is that their position is that theology has its place but just not in church. Huh? You can't tell someone they're a sinner. Huh? The emergents and these guys are cut from the same soiled cloth. You cannot rob the gospel of its offense. I saw Rick Warren on Nightline the other night and he said something to the effect that if changing the approach and causing some rifts in the church was what it took to “reach” those for whom Christ died than it’s worth it. The problem with him and Osteen, et al, is that their position is that theology has its place but just not in church. Huh? You can’t tell someone they’re a sinner. Huh? The emergents and these guys are cut from the same soiled cloth. You cannot rob the gospel of its offense.

]]> By: Nath @ Reformed Geek http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/comment-page-1/#comment-31927 Nath @ Reformed Geek Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:22:06 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/06/25/the-church-vs-the-world/#comment-31927 "And the Christian message simply cannot be twisted to conform to the vicissitudes of worldly opinion. Biblical truth is fixed and constant..." Amen! Thanks John MacArthur for being faithful to the word. “And the Christian message simply cannot be twisted to conform to the vicissitudes of worldly opinion. Biblical truth is fixed and constant…”

Amen! Thanks John MacArthur for being faithful to the word.

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