Comments on: What’s Inside the Trojan Horse? http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/ A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:00:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: healtheland http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-24094 Mon, 28 May 2007 23:23:44 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-24094 Charles E. Whisnant: My point was that the entry "What's Inside The Trojan Horse" seems to blame the "pragmatism" ills on "evangelicalism", which I take to mean rejection (if only in part) of the "predestination" and "election" doctrines of Calvinism, rather than on the sinful rebellious hearts of man. Charles E. Whisnant:

My point was that the entry “What’s Inside The Trojan Horse” seems to blame the “pragmatism” ills on “evangelicalism”, which I take to mean rejection (if only in part) of the “predestination” and “election” doctrines of Calvinism, rather than on the sinful rebellious hearts of man.

]]> by: Charles E. Whisnant http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23782 Fri, 25 May 2007 18:34:35 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23782 HEATHELAND AND THOMAS TWITCHELL Okay I have read healtheland's thread and can not figure the point. And I have read Thomas Twitchell's blog and have not figure it out. Charles HEATHELAND AND THOMAS TWITCHELL

Okay I have read healtheland’s thread and can not figure the point. And I have read Thomas Twitchell’s blog and have not figure it out.

Charles

]]> by: Thomas Twitchell http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23685 Thu, 24 May 2007 20:07:44 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23685 "Many of today’s church leaders have bought into the subtlety of pragmatism without recognizing the dangers it poses." What of the pragmatism of "holy living?" As Seth mentioned we have doxas and we have praxis. You yourself have said that these two are never alone in Scripture, and rightly point out that doxas comes first. So Scripture says, that in the beginning was the Word then and by that Word things were created, "...and the Lord said...." Praxis is second in the natural order of creation. You made mention that we diminsh praxis inordinately, or kill it altogether, but is there not a danger of pragmatism if we make praxis equal in emphasis to the knowledge of the Word of God? My fellow SBC'ers are far "holier" than they are "knowing" of the source of their holiness, which makes no sense. Ephesians begins with the facts of our faith, that is the doctrine and establishes for us the progression. It is maturity in knowledge first, then exercise of practice, then maturity in both, and finally having done all to stand, to stand. The wrong order or the wrong emphasis will lead to the very thing that you caution: "It makes material blessing, not Jesus Christ, the object of the Christian’s desires." For, one of those material blessings that we all long for is purity in the practice of holiness. It is in fact, for the true believer, the greatest burden. It is not the pursuit of materials to live on, but to be relieved of the burden of this flesh, that plagues us most. It is what Paul prayed that be lifted from him to which the Lord's response was, "My grace is sufficient for you, for in your weaknesses my power is made purfect." And, it is that subject which the writer of Hebrews points to when he admonishes the believer to fix his gaze, not on his sins, but on Christ, the first leader in the faith and its perfection. The writer instructs us of the finished work of Christ, and not to get hung up by the lack of holiness that so easily entangles. Hebrews 11 lists the great cloud of witnesses whose holiness is portrayed not in their behavior but by the imputed righteousness of our Savior on the account of faith (the intimate knowledge of the Holy One). When we focus on holiness then: "Christ is no longer the focus of the message. While His name is mentioned from time to time, the real focus is inward, not upward. People are urged to look within; to try to understand themselves; to come to grips with their problems, their hurts, their disappointments; to have their needs met, their desires granted, their wants fulfilled. Nearly all the popular versions of the message encourage and legitimize a self-centered perspective." So it was and still is the problem with puritanism, or what is more commonly called pietism. Holiness of life can become the cares and concerns the grow up and choke the Word making it unfruitful. This was one of Paul's concerns when he addressed the law. It is not that the law is evil. Quite the contrary, we are. It is the fact that living by it, it brings to life all manners of evil, even that subtlety of self-approval. "When I wanted to do good...For if the law had not said you shall not covet, I would not have known sin...but when the commandment came, sin seizing the opportunity afforded by the law put me to death...Therefore I will serve God in my mind." In all of Paul's conversations on sin we see it as a secondary concern, one that is put to death if we by the Spirit pursue the kingdom, as Christ said, His righteousness, then these things will be added to us. Not as a matter of us doing it but, by Him doing it in us. "The flesh wars agains the Spirit...so that you do not do as you will...work out your salvation with fear and trembling knowing that it is He who works in you both the willing and the doing of His good pleasure," Because of this Paul had to defend himself against those who accused him of teaching lawlessness. There is a vast difference, is there not, between the life lived by the grace of God and Christ's Spirit in us, than that which is lived by the circumcision of the flesh? Does not godly exercise (doxas) trump bodily exercise (praxis)? Should we add lordship praxis to the finished work of Christ? He is already Lord and working out his dominion in this earth. Holiness? "Who are you to judge another man's servant?" A man need only tend his own garden, examining himself by the Word, to discover if he is in the faith. And, if he is in the faith, then he is holy because Christ's Spirit lives in him and he can not sin, 1 John. Holiness people, though, are are never content with their own fruit. It is by their neighbors that they seek to justify themselves, either fellow Christians or unbelievers. Compared to Christ we are all lying in the street, filthy, and bloody. Therefore, we do not diminish the righteous demands of the Law, we rather exalt the finished work of Christ as the fulfillment of the law for us. He is the source of it and its object, and it completion. For, the command of Christ combined with Peter's admonishment is to Be perfectly holy as I am perfectly holy. And, "...add to your faith holiness without which no one will see God." Then we must contend that: "...today’s Christianity is infected with a tendency to view the result of faith as something less than God’s standard of holy living. By downplaying the importance of holy living–both by precept and by example–the biblical doctrine of conversion is undermined. Think about it: What more could Satan do to try to destroy the church than undermining God’s Word, shifting the focus off Christ, and minimizing holy living?" is in actuallity a shifting the focus off of Christ and exalting the works of the flesh to equality with Him. Instead of making the two equal, Scripture subjugates and subordinates holiness in man to a lesser status in the life of the believer than it does doctrine which is the Word of God, the Son. Simply, doctrine, or right knowledge (orthodoxy) is the source not the mate of right living. “God’s Word doesn’t have all the answers.” This is not what the Devil said. His offer was that they might know how to determine good from evil. "For God knows in the day that you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil." Do not subtract or add to the Word, Dr. MacArthur. What the devil was offering was a holiness that man could attain by his own determinate will and works. The holiness in which they were created, a holiness given, the devil implied was not good enough and for them to be truely like God they needed to be able to make themselves like Him, holy. Adam and Eve were created to will and to do of His good pleasure. To that Satan added that they must pursue holiness by their own effort. To this Christ replied, that "Man does not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God." And, "There is only one who is holy, and that is God." The cautions you give are needed hearing in every generation. Yet, the caution against self-righteousness is also needed. Those who sit under your words are no more holy than you and you are no more holy than the unconverted sinner in the street. But you do have this that the unbeliever does not, a rightousness that is in Christ's alone, given, not earned and not one that can be activated by your will, "the very good that I will to do is the very thing that I find myself unable to do." That is a message that is sorely lacking. Though our lives should be an example, "mind your doctrine and your life," it is the Word that Christ said is the true life. Our life is but a mist, a shadow, a name that no one will remember, so the Preacher said, but his Word endures forever. “Many of today’s church leaders have bought into the subtlety of pragmatism without recognizing the dangers it poses.”

What of the pragmatism of “holy living?” As Seth mentioned we have doxas and we have praxis. You yourself have said that these two are never alone in Scripture, and rightly point out that doxas comes first. So Scripture says, that in the beginning was the Word then and by that Word things were created, “…and the Lord said….” Praxis is second in the natural order of creation. You made mention that we diminsh praxis inordinately, or kill it altogether, but is there not a danger of pragmatism if we make praxis equal in emphasis to the knowledge of the Word of God? My fellow SBC’ers are far “holier” than they are “knowing” of the source of their holiness, which makes no sense. Ephesians begins with the facts of our faith, that is the doctrine and establishes for us the progression. It is maturity in knowledge first, then exercise of practice, then maturity in both, and finally having done all to stand, to stand.

The wrong order or the wrong emphasis will lead to the very thing that you caution:

“It makes material blessing, not Jesus Christ, the object of the Christian’s desires.”

For, one of those material blessings that we all long for is purity in the practice of holiness. It is in fact, for the true believer, the greatest burden. It is not the pursuit of materials to live on, but to be relieved of the burden of this flesh, that plagues us most. It is what Paul prayed that be lifted from him to which the Lord’s response was, “My grace is sufficient for you, for in your weaknesses my power is made purfect.” And, it is that subject which the writer of Hebrews points to when he admonishes the believer to fix his gaze, not on his sins, but on Christ, the first leader in the faith and its perfection. The writer instructs us of the finished work of Christ, and not to get hung up by the lack of holiness that so easily entangles. Hebrews 11 lists the great cloud of witnesses whose holiness is portrayed not in their behavior but by the imputed righteousness of our Savior on the account of faith (the intimate knowledge of the Holy One).

When we focus on holiness then:

“Christ is no longer the focus of the message. While His name is mentioned from time to time, the real focus is inward, not upward. People are urged to look within; to try to understand themselves; to come to grips with their problems, their hurts, their disappointments; to have their needs met, their desires granted, their wants fulfilled. Nearly all the popular versions of the message encourage and legitimize a self-centered perspective.”

So it was and still is the problem with puritanism, or what is more commonly called pietism. Holiness of life can become the cares and concerns the grow up and choke the Word making it unfruitful. This was one of Paul’s concerns when he addressed the law. It is not that the law is evil. Quite the contrary, we are. It is the fact that living by it, it brings to life all manners of evil, even that subtlety of self-approval. “When I wanted to do good…For if the law had not said you shall not covet, I would not have known sin…but when the commandment came, sin seizing the opportunity afforded by the law put me to death…Therefore I will serve God in my mind.” In all of Paul’s conversations on sin we see it as a secondary concern, one that is put to death if we by the Spirit pursue the kingdom, as Christ said, His righteousness, then these things will be added to us. Not as a matter of us doing it but, by Him doing it in us. “The flesh wars agains the Spirit…so that you do not do as you will…work out your salvation with fear and trembling knowing that it is He who works in you both the willing and the doing of His good pleasure,” Because of this Paul had to defend himself against those who accused him of teaching lawlessness. There is a vast difference, is there not, between the life lived by the grace of God and Christ’s Spirit in us, than that which is lived by the circumcision of the flesh? Does not godly exercise (doxas) trump bodily exercise (praxis)?

Should we add lordship praxis to the finished work of Christ? He is already Lord and working out his dominion in this earth. Holiness? “Who are you to judge another man’s servant?” A man need only tend his own garden, examining himself by the Word, to discover if he is in the faith. And, if he is in the faith, then he is holy because Christ’s Spirit lives in him and he can not sin, 1 John. Holiness people, though, are are never content with their own fruit. It is by their neighbors that they seek to justify themselves, either fellow Christians or unbelievers. Compared to Christ we are all lying in the street, filthy, and bloody.

Therefore, we do not diminish the righteous demands of the Law, we rather exalt the finished work of Christ as the fulfillment of the law for us. He is the source of it and its object, and it completion. For, the command of Christ combined with Peter’s admonishment is to Be perfectly holy as I am perfectly holy. And, “…add to your faith holiness without which no one will see God.” Then we must contend that:

“…today’s Christianity is infected with a tendency to view the result of faith as something less than God’s standard of holy living. By downplaying the importance of holy living–both by precept and by example–the biblical doctrine of conversion is undermined. Think about it: What more could Satan do to try to destroy the church than undermining God’s Word, shifting the focus off Christ, and minimizing holy living?”

is in actuallity a shifting the focus off of Christ and exalting the works of the flesh to equality with Him. Instead of making the two equal, Scripture subjugates and subordinates holiness in man to a lesser status in the life of the believer than it does doctrine which is the Word of God, the Son. Simply, doctrine, or right knowledge (orthodoxy) is the source not the mate of right living.

“God’s Word doesn’t have all the answers.”

This is not what the Devil said. His offer was that they might know how to determine good from evil. “For God knows in the day that you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like God knowing good and evil.” Do not subtract or add to the Word, Dr. MacArthur. What the devil was offering was a holiness that man could attain by his own determinate will and works. The holiness in which they were created, a holiness given, the devil implied was not good enough and for them to be truely like God they needed to be able to make themselves like Him, holy. Adam and Eve were created to will and to do of His good pleasure. To that Satan added that they must pursue holiness by their own effort. To this Christ replied, that “Man does not live by bread alone but by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God.” And, “There is only one who is holy, and that is God.”

The cautions you give are needed hearing in every generation. Yet, the caution against self-righteousness is also needed. Those who sit under your words are no more holy than you and you are no more holy than the unconverted sinner in the street. But you do have this that the unbeliever does not, a rightousness that is in Christ’s alone, given, not earned and not one that can be activated by your will, “the very good that I will to do is the very thing that I find myself unable to do.” That is a message that is sorely lacking. Though our lives should be an example, “mind your doctrine and your life,” it is the Word that Christ said is the true life. Our life is but a mist, a shadow, a name that no one will remember, so the Preacher said, but his Word endures forever.

]]> by: Seth McBee http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23639 Thu, 24 May 2007 00:13:35 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23639 Jim. I don't think there is a correct answer here...too many variables. I think both need to continually look to the truth of God's word to make sure that they are upholding all truths and not just some of them for the sake of their church and the attendance. Believe it or not, some churches like to use their small congregation as almost a "martyrdom" complex instead of thinking, "we might not be faithful to the word in every aspect." Same could be said for the large church...just cause a church is large doesn't mean it is godly. Take a look at the Mormon church or Islam...big doesn't equal good... all things must be tested by the ever abiding word of truth, regardless of size and/or influence. Jim.
I don’t think there is a correct answer here…too many variables. I think both need to continually look to the truth of God’s word to make sure that they are upholding all truths and not just some of them for the sake of their church and the attendance. Believe it or not, some churches like to use their small congregation as almost a “martyrdom” complex instead of thinking, “we might not be faithful to the word in every aspect.”

Same could be said for the large church…just cause a church is large doesn’t mean it is godly. Take a look at the Mormon church or Islam…big doesn’t equal good…

all things must be tested by the ever abiding word of truth, regardless of size and/or influence.

]]> by: Jim http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23634 Wed, 23 May 2007 23:15:54 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23634 I have a question. People that I talk to in these pragmatic churches say this: "Look how God is blessing this ministry." A church down the street preaching the Word with 30 to 40 people paying a bi-vocational pastor is just getting by. Which church is being blessed by God? I have a question. People that I talk to in these pragmatic churches say this: “Look how God is blessing this ministry.” A church down the street preaching the Word with 30 to 40 people paying a bi-vocational pastor is just getting by. Which church is being blessed by God?

]]> by: healtheland http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23627 Wed, 23 May 2007 20:29:45 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23627 The problems described in this article have been going on since days of the early church, and the epistles to the Corinthians and similar demonstrate it. The only difference between then and now is that where Paul, Peter, and the other New Testament writers blamed the problems on man's own desire to resist, defy, and disobey God to go after their own flesh, we currently blame all problems on the "failure" on everyone to universally adhere to a particular doctrine or join a specific denominaton. As many problems as there are with "evangelicalism" (and please do not pretend that others are without problems) the simple truth is that were it not for that greatly flawed movement, the vast majority of the people in it would either be Catholic, in a liberal mainline denomination, or not Christian in any sense at all. It does little good to delude oneself into thinking that the "evangelicalism" movement stole all of these good strong Christians away from Reformed Baptist or Reformed Presbyterian congregations. Rather, the "evangelicalists" are in some fashion confronting the problem that the majority of Americans did not grow up attending church (and the majority of those who did attended nonfundamentalist ones) and that there are billions of people worldwide who have never had the opportunity to receive Jesus Christ at all. "Evangelicalism" may be responding to and accommodating the humanism and other filth in American culture, but it would be simply wrong to claim that "evangelicalism" is a cause of it, or that America would somehow be a more Christian place with more strong believers without it. Despite its many flaws, what "evangelicalism" accomplishes is to place the Word of God before people who otherwise would not have had access to it. After that is done, it is incumbent upon each individual believer to study, believe, and heed that same Word of God. Can any among you point to any Bible - based (important caveat there!) Christian denomination or movement that can honestly lay a claim to being any better at overcoming the desire to sin, rebel, disobey, and compromise within its members, I'd like to know what it is. It isn't about whether the church plays Christian rock (or rap) during its worship services, because to tell the truth I honestly doubt that anyone is singing the same hymns (let alone singing them the same way) as they were in the time of Luther and Calvin, and I further doubt that the manner of their worship bore any resemblance to what the Hebrews of the New Testament church were doing. As a matter of fact, you had Hebrews, Greeks, Romans, Turks, Africans, etc. in the first century church, and I sincerely doubt that they all worshipped the same way. There are limits to what is acceptable of course and those limits are being violated more and more frequently, but the general rule still remains that the measure of one's true love for and dedication to God is determined not nearly so much how one comports himself in church on Sunday as it is outside of church on the other six days of the week. Is there any group within Christendom whose membership as a group is any better at loving God with all their heart, soul, and strength and then loving their neighbor when they are outside the four walls of the church? If you honestly believe this to be so, then please make your case for it. Then again, were this truly so, then you would not have to make your case because the fruits of such a people would already be widely known, just as the fruits of the New Testament church were. The problems described in this article have been going on since days of the early church, and the epistles to the Corinthians and similar demonstrate it. The only difference between then and now is that where Paul, Peter, and the other New Testament writers blamed the problems on man’s own desire to resist, defy, and disobey God to go after their own flesh, we currently blame all problems on the “failure” on everyone to universally adhere to a particular doctrine or join a specific denominaton. As many problems as there are with “evangelicalism” (and please do not pretend that others are without problems) the simple truth is that were it not for that greatly flawed movement, the vast majority of the people in it would either be Catholic, in a liberal mainline denomination, or not Christian in any sense at all. It does little good to delude oneself into thinking that the “evangelicalism” movement stole all of these good strong Christians away from Reformed Baptist or Reformed Presbyterian congregations. Rather, the “evangelicalists” are in some fashion confronting the problem that the majority of Americans did not grow up attending church (and the majority of those who did attended nonfundamentalist ones) and that there are billions of people worldwide who have never had the opportunity to receive Jesus Christ at all. “Evangelicalism” may be responding to and accommodating the humanism and other filth in American culture, but it would be simply wrong to claim that “evangelicalism” is a cause of it, or that America would somehow be a more Christian place with more strong believers without it. Despite its many flaws, what “evangelicalism” accomplishes is to place the Word of God before people who otherwise would not have had access to it. After that is done, it is incumbent upon each individual believer to study, believe, and heed that same Word of God. Can any among you point to any Bible - based (important caveat there!) Christian denomination or movement that can honestly lay a claim to being any better at overcoming the desire to sin, rebel, disobey, and compromise within its members, I’d like to know what it is. It isn’t about whether the church plays Christian rock (or rap) during its worship services, because to tell the truth I honestly doubt that anyone is singing the same hymns (let alone singing them the same way) as they were in the time of Luther and Calvin, and I further doubt that the manner of their worship bore any resemblance to what the Hebrews of the New Testament church were doing. As a matter of fact, you had Hebrews, Greeks, Romans, Turks, Africans, etc. in the first century church, and I sincerely doubt that they all worshipped the same way. There are limits to what is acceptable of course and those limits are being violated more and more frequently, but the general rule still remains that the measure of one’s true love for and dedication to God is determined not nearly so much how one comports himself in church on Sunday as it is outside of church on the other six days of the week. Is there any group within Christendom whose membership as a group is any better at loving God with all their heart, soul, and strength and then loving their neighbor when they are outside the four walls of the church? If you honestly believe this to be so, then please make your case for it. Then again, were this truly so, then you would not have to make your case because the fruits of such a people would already be widely known, just as the fruits of the New Testament church were.

]]> by: Dave Rolph http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23622 Wed, 23 May 2007 19:57:18 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23622 This article is a sound warning against the dangers of following pragmatism as a guiding light. We certainly need to be pragmatic in all areas of life, including ministry. The problem comes in when pragmatism trumps truth, and John has expressed this very well. Our relativistic culture has sacrificed epistemology and our churches have followed suit, because sometimes truth just doesn't "work" as well as we want it to. But the "fresh thinkers" of today will learn the lesson their modernist forefathers learned the hard way: giving up on truth works even less effectively than truth does. Great article, John! This article is a sound warning against the dangers of following pragmatism as a guiding light. We certainly need to be pragmatic in all areas of life, including ministry. The problem comes in when pragmatism trumps truth, and John has expressed this very well.

Our relativistic culture has sacrificed epistemology and our churches have followed suit, because sometimes truth just doesn’t “work” as well as we want it to. But the “fresh thinkers” of today will learn the lesson their modernist forefathers learned the hard way: giving up on truth works even less effectively than truth does.

Great article, John!

]]> by: Jeff de Ruyter http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23614 Wed, 23 May 2007 19:05:36 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23614 Great article, I used some of it already! The part of this that worries me the most is that most do not realize it. And the only explanation I have is they are not grounded in the Word, but ground in the World. Great article, I used some of it already! The part of this that worries me the most is that most do not realize it. And the only explanation I have is they are not grounded in the Word, but ground in the World.

]]> by: Randy Kleinman http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23613 Wed, 23 May 2007 17:57:58 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23613 This is a timely article, especially since I just recently finished reading "Ashamed of the Gospel" by MacArthur, which I assume is what this article is based upon. I know he doesn't need any advertising, but the contents of that book were incredibly illuminating to me as I see pragmatism running rampant in my home church. In fact, it is a great book to read to help understand the history behind the next fad/attack on biblical ministry which is coming from Emergent folks. I especially liked the chapter on the Sovereignty of God in Salvation. It was very eye-opening to see that if one thinks they can come up with catchy enough material to convince people to be saved, the doctrines of grace are completely undermined. Thanks Dr. MacArthur for a good reminder of Jude 3 again. This is a timely article, especially since I just recently finished reading “Ashamed of the Gospel” by MacArthur, which I assume is what this article is based upon. I know he doesn’t need any advertising, but the contents of that book were incredibly illuminating to me as I see pragmatism running rampant in my home church. In fact, it is a great book to read to help understand the history behind the next fad/attack on biblical ministry which is coming from Emergent folks.

I especially liked the chapter on the Sovereignty of God in Salvation. It was very eye-opening to see that if one thinks they can come up with catchy enough material to convince people to be saved, the doctrines of grace are completely undermined.

Thanks Dr. MacArthur for a good reminder of Jude 3 again.

]]> by: Seth McBee http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23609 Wed, 23 May 2007 17:46:16 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/05/23/what%e2%80%99s-inside-the-trojan-horse/#comment-23609 Although I don't think we should be pragamatic in our orthodoxy, I think we are all sometimes and in some way pragmatic in our orthopraxy. If we weren't why do we have technology like websites and microphones. Why do we ever sing new songs of praise? The reason is because in "today's age" these things are expected and "needed" in our sense for people and our ministries. Look at Hudson Taylor... As long as we aren't pragmatic in our orthodoxy I am fine, it is when people and churches become pragmatic in theology that it gets real dangerous. Like you said Dr. MacArthur, the focus on the Son and the Gospel must be kept above all because it is of the first importance (1 Cor 15) Although I don’t think we should be pragamatic in our orthodoxy, I think we are all sometimes and in some way pragmatic in our orthopraxy.

If we weren’t why do we have technology like websites and microphones. Why do we ever sing new songs of praise? The reason is because in “today’s age” these things are expected and “needed” in our sense for people and our ministries. Look at Hudson Taylor…

As long as we aren’t pragmatic in our orthodoxy I am fine, it is when people and churches become pragmatic in theology that it gets real dangerous. Like you said Dr. MacArthur, the focus on the Son and the Gospel must be kept above all because it is of the first importance (1 Cor 15)

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