Comments on: Why I Am a Calvinist (Part 4) http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/ A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:54:00 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Jeffrey http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-16823 Jeffrey Tue, 10 Apr 2007 02:16:24 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/#comment-16823 Phil says human free will is a "wrong idea" and "faulty assumption" not taught in the Bible. Really? Maybe he should go back and read Deut. 30:10 - "I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live." Can it get any more clear? Or how about 2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." While God does have foreknowledge of who will and will not respond to the gift of grace, He does not violate man's free will. Even ancient Judaism embraced man's free will toward God. Predestination is an arrogant doctrine, a lie from the pit of hell. Who would want to serve a God who created a being to be condemned to hell without any opporunity of escape? That is not a God of mercy. That is not the God I know. Phil says human free will is a “wrong idea” and “faulty assumption” not taught in the Bible. Really? Maybe he should go back and read Deut. 30:10 – “I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live.” Can it get any more clear? Or how about 2 Peter 3:9 – “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” While God does have foreknowledge of who will and will not respond to the gift of grace, He does not violate man’s free will. Even ancient Judaism embraced man’s free will toward God. Predestination is an arrogant doctrine, a lie from the pit of hell. Who would want to serve a God who created a being to be condemned to hell without any opporunity of escape? That is not a God of mercy. That is not the God I know.

]]> By: Why Is Election Important? at Y Not I http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-14815 Why Is Election Important? at Y Not I Fri, 30 Mar 2007 15:54:04 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/#comment-14815 [...] I think basically I have a problem with the doctrine of Election, however, I think neither side is really that on, and more importantly it seems like a waste of a great deal of time and energy. It seems infinitely more important in what we should do as believer, rather than endlessly discussing how we got here. I suppose questions about telling others about what G-d has done for you, or praying for the salvation of others come into question however I don’t see an answer through this. First of all, in the series that started this discussion, the author, Phil Johnson speaks about his early days as a believer and as one that was an Arminian at that. He goes on: One of the things that first got me thinking seriously about the sovereignty of God was an incident in a college Sunday School class, in a Southern Baptist Church, in Durant, OK, where I had a Sunday school teacher who hated Calvinism with a passion and wasted no opportunity to make an argument against the sovereignty of God. And his continual emphasis on the subject got me thinking about it a lot. Then one Sunday, while this guy was taking prayer requests, a girl in the class raised her hand and asked, “Should we really be praying for our lost relatives? It seems like it’s a wasted effort to pray to God for their salvation if He can’t do any more than He has already done to save them.” [...] [...] I think basically I have a problem with the doctrine of Election, however, I think neither side is really that on, and more importantly it seems like a waste of a great deal of time and energy. It seems infinitely more important in what we should do as believer, rather than endlessly discussing how we got here. I suppose questions about telling others about what G-d has done for you, or praying for the salvation of others come into question however I don’t see an answer through this. First of all, in the series that started this discussion, the author, Phil Johnson speaks about his early days as a believer and as one that was an Arminian at that. He goes on: One of the things that first got me thinking seriously about the sovereignty of God was an incident in a college Sunday School class, in a Southern Baptist Church, in Durant, OK, where I had a Sunday school teacher who hated Calvinism with a passion and wasted no opportunity to make an argument against the sovereignty of God. And his continual emphasis on the subject got me thinking about it a lot. Then one Sunday, while this guy was taking prayer requests, a girl in the class raised her hand and asked, “Should we really be praying for our lost relatives? It seems like it’s a wasted effort to pray to God for their salvation if He can’t do any more than He has already done to save them.” [...]

]]> By: Jeff http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-14041 Jeff Wed, 28 Mar 2007 02:33:12 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/#comment-14041 This is heavy meat. This is heavy meat.

]]> By: ever in joy » If God’s already done as much as He will… http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-14024 ever in joy » If God’s already done as much as He will… Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:49:56 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/#comment-14024 [...] A brilliant question the non-Reformed have to ask themselves: why do I pray for the lost? [...] [...] A brilliant question the non-Reformed have to ask themselves: why do I pray for the lost? [...]

]]> By: Henry (Rick) Frueh http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-14008 Henry (Rick) Frueh Tue, 27 Mar 2007 20:38:24 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/#comment-14008 And there are Calvinists who are now Arminian so the direction of change does not necessarily prove Biblical enlightenment. What is of concern to many of us is that some Calvinists actually contend that the Wesleyan gospel is a false gospel. And I can see the reasoning and Biblical support for unconditional election although I still disagree, I can see the reasoning for total depravity, and I can understand the reasoning behind the perserverance of the saints. But the limited atonement teaching is the most tortured of all Calvinistic teachings and it must depend upon the redefinition of obvious Biblical words (world, all, etc.) and Calvin came up with that basically because he felt it was congruent with the rest of his view of election. And when the Calvinistic community uses phrases like "the teachings of grace" implying that Arminians do not teach grace is, well, somewhat condescending. No? A good dialogue though, thank you for letting an Wesleyan contribute. And there are Calvinists who are now Arminian so the direction of change does not necessarily prove Biblical enlightenment. What is of concern to many of us is that some Calvinists actually contend that the Wesleyan gospel is a false gospel.

And I can see the reasoning and Biblical support for unconditional election although I still disagree, I can see the reasoning for total depravity, and I can understand the reasoning behind the perserverance of the saints.

But the limited atonement teaching is the most tortured of all Calvinistic teachings and it must depend upon the redefinition of obvious Biblical words (world, all, etc.) and Calvin came up with that basically because he felt it was congruent with the rest of his view of election.

And when the Calvinistic community uses phrases like “the teachings of grace” implying that Arminians do not teach grace is, well, somewhat condescending. No?

A good dialogue though, thank you for letting an Wesleyan contribute.

]]> By: tohu va bohu » Blog Archive » Resources for Studying Calvinism http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-14005 tohu va bohu » Blog Archive » Resources for Studying Calvinism Tue, 27 Mar 2007 19:39:54 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/#comment-14005 [...] Phil did a seminar at this year’s Shepherds’ Conference that has turned into a blog series titled, “Why I Am a Calvinist.” This particular post has links to a one message mp3 he preached on “The Story of Calvinism” and a 600+ page Word document on Calvinism that is near the top of his recommended reading list. [...] [...] Phil did a seminar at this year’s Shepherds’ Conference that has turned into a blog series titled, “Why I Am a Calvinist.” This particular post has links to a one message mp3 he preached on “The Story of Calvinism” and a 600+ page Word document on Calvinism that is near the top of his recommended reading list. [...]

]]> By: Why I Am a Calvinist (Part 4) « The Expositor http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-13955 Why I Am a Calvinist (Part 4) « The Expositor Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:59:28 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/#comment-13955 [...] In that message, I explained that I have not always been a Calvinist. I grew up in a family that had been Wesleyan Methodists for generations — and even after I became a Christian, it was several years before I finally came to the point where I could affirm the biblical doctrine of election without trying to explain it away. Continue Reading » [...] [...] In that message, I explained that I have not always been a Calvinist. I grew up in a family that had been Wesleyan Methodists for generations — and even after I became a Christian, it was several years before I finally came to the point where I could affirm the biblical doctrine of election without trying to explain it away. Continue Reading » [...]

]]> By: Mrs. Burrows http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-13904 Mrs. Burrows Mon, 26 Mar 2007 22:01:42 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/#comment-13904 Hi Rick, concern is understood in view of the link you shared and knowing it is more the norm that gentlemen leaders of flocks post here(this place is a tremendous blessing to me). Your gracious apology is accepted; my apology to you and others for my lack of clarity that led to intent misunderstanding. I will be more careful. We likely can agree there is simplicity and sufficiency and unity in Christ that begins with what God says and means. Isn't that what matters most? I trust the Lord will work out the details concerning doctrinal disagreement? God is good. Have a lovely evening. :-) Hi Rick, concern is understood in view of the link you shared and knowing it is more the norm that gentlemen leaders of flocks post here(this place is a tremendous blessing to me). Your gracious apology is accepted; my apology to you and others for my lack of clarity that led to intent misunderstanding. I will be more careful.

We likely can agree there is simplicity and sufficiency and unity in Christ that begins with what God says and means. Isn’t that what matters most? I trust the Lord will work out the details concerning doctrinal disagreement? God is good.

Have a lovely evening.

:-)

]]> By: Henry (Rick) Frueh http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-13884 Henry (Rick) Frueh Mon, 26 Mar 2007 18:53:31 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/#comment-13884 Mrs. Burrows, I sincerely appreciate your reply. I have visited your blog and to be fair most of what you post is edifying to all. Your comment here represents a Christlike spirit, and perhaps as was suggested I overreacted. I apologize. Rick Mrs. Burrows, I sincerely appreciate your reply. I have visited your blog and to be fair most of what you post is edifying to all. Your comment here represents a Christlike spirit, and perhaps as was suggested I overreacted.

I apologize.

Rick

]]> By: Henry (Rick) Frueh http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/comment-page-1/#comment-13881 Henry (Rick) Frueh Mon, 26 Mar 2007 18:04:22 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/22/why-i-am-a-calvinist-part-4/#comment-13881 To be fair the terms Calvinism and Arminianism are just descriptive terms to generally identify a person's theology especially concerning free will. It helps when sharing with each other. To be fair the terms Calvinism and Arminianism are just descriptive terms to generally identify a person’s theology especially concerning free will. It helps when sharing with each other.

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