Comments on: Monday’s Mystery Quotation Quiz http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/19/mondays-mystery-quotation-quiz/ A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:16:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: Brian Q. http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/19/mondays-mystery-quotation-quiz/#comment-13561 Sat, 24 Mar 2007 14:02:58 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/19/mondays-mystery-quotation-quiz/#comment-13561 The problem that most people do not take up, or recognize in this discussion is the often misunderstood usage of "kai outws." Paul, excuse me for being bold, almost NEVER uses "kai outws" (nine times- Rom. 5:12, 11:26, 1 Cor 7:17, 36, 11:28. 14:25, 15:11; Gal 6:2; 1Th 4:7) to mean plainly "and so." Kai outws in pauline literature is predominantly employed for a manner. Therefore it should be recognized that "kai outws" here before "all Israel will be saved" should actually be rendered, "and so in this way, all Israel shall be saved." Of course this DOES NOT CHANGE the national aspect of the main point. BUT this does change the way in which all Israel shall be saved. The correct identification of "kai outws" implies that Paul is still maintaining his remnant theme. This remnant theme is now being applied to how Jews will be saved. The main point then seems to be that just as the Gentiles have been saved as being a remnant, so in this way all Israel shall be saved. Its the how, not the how many, where and when. Paying attention the greek text and usage of key transitional markers is more important than speculating on identifying people groups and times to fit into a personal grid of future salvation history timeline. The problem that most people do not take up, or recognize in this discussion is the often misunderstood usage of “kai outws.” Paul, excuse me for being bold, almost NEVER uses “kai outws” (nine times- Rom. 5:12, 11:26, 1 Cor 7:17, 36, 11:28. 14:25, 15:11; Gal 6:2; 1Th 4:7) to mean plainly “and so.” Kai outws in pauline literature is predominantly employed for a manner. Therefore it should be recognized that “kai outws” here before “all Israel will be saved” should actually be rendered, “and so in this way, all Israel shall be saved.” Of course this DOES NOT CHANGE the national aspect of the main point. BUT this does change the way in which all Israel shall be saved. The correct identification of “kai outws” implies that Paul is still maintaining his remnant theme. This remnant theme is now being applied to how Jews will be saved. The main point then seems to be that just as the Gentiles have been saved as being a remnant, so in this way all Israel shall be saved. Its the how, not the how many, where and when. Paying attention the greek text and usage of key transitional markers is more important than speculating on identifying people groups and times to fit into a personal grid of future salvation history timeline.

]]> by: Tom Albrecht http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/19/mondays-mystery-quotation-quiz/#comment-13512 Sat, 24 Mar 2007 02:49:34 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/19/mondays-mystery-quotation-quiz/#comment-13512 Thanks for all these quotes, mostly from our Reformed forefathers. They clearly demonstrate that one does not need to be dispensational to have a high regard and expectation for the salvation of the Jewish people. They also plainly demonstrate that the notion of salvation or election of national Israel apart from Christ's bride, the church, was a concept foreign to the Reformers. As the gospel is advanced in this age, and many are converted by its power, we should expect that many who call themselves Jews will flee to Christ in ever increasing numbers. Thanks for all these quotes, mostly from our Reformed forefathers. They clearly demonstrate that one does not need to be dispensational to have a high regard and expectation for the salvation of the Jewish people. They also plainly demonstrate that the notion of salvation or election of national Israel apart from Christ’s bride, the church, was a concept foreign to the Reformers. As the gospel is advanced in this age, and many are converted by its power, we should expect that many who call themselves Jews will flee to Christ in ever increasing numbers.

]]> by: Phil Layton http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/19/mondays-mystery-quotation-quiz/#comment-12859 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 01:14:22 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/19/mondays-mystery-quotation-quiz/#comment-12859 Here's a couple more from the Puritan commentaries on the whole Bible: Matthew Poole, Commentary on the Bible, Vol. 3, pp. 519-520 [Comment on Romas 11.36]: ‘by Israel here (as in the precedent verse) you must understand, the nation and people of the Jews. And by all Israel is not meant every individual Israelite, but many, or (it may be) the greatest part of them. So all is to be taken in Scripture: see John 6:45; 1 Tim 2:6, and elsewhere. Look, as when he speaks of the conversion of the Gentiles, and the coming in of their fulness, there are many (too many of them) still unconverted; so, notwithstanding the general calling of the Jews, a great many of them may remain uncalled. As it is written; the apostle had this by revelation, but he proves it also by Scripture. All are not agreed from whence these testimonies are taken; the former is found (with some little variation) in Isa 59:20: as for the latter, some think it is taken from Jer 31:33. Others think, that he joineth two places in Isaiah together, (as he did before, Rom 11:8,) and the last words are taken out of Isa 27:9. The Seventy have the very words used by the apostle. These prophecies and promises, though they were in part fulfilled when Christ came in the flesh, (see Acts 3:26,) yet there will be a more full and complete accomplishment thereof upon the Jewish nation and people towards the end of the world.’ Matthew Henry, Commentary on the Whole Bible, Rom. 11.26: ‘The Jews shall continue in blindness, till God hath performed his whole work among the Gentiles, and then their turn will come next to be remembered. This was the purpose and ordination of God, for wise and holy ends; things should not be ripe for the Jews’ conversion till the church was replenished with the Gentiles, that it might appear that God’s taking them again was not because he had need of them, but of his own free grace ... [Some] think that it is yet to have its accomplishment towards the end of the world-that those Jews which yet wonderfully remain distinct from the rest of the nations by their names, customs, and religion, and are very numerous, especially in the Levant parts, shall, by the working of the Spirit with the word, be convinced of their sin, and brought generally to embrace the Christian faith, and to join in with the Christian churches, which will contribute much to their strength and beauty. Alas! who shall live when God doeth this?’ J.C. Ryle comes after the Puritan era of course, but he's one of my favorite reformed devotional writers, and he also adds some interesting thoughts to the discussion: 'It always seemed to me that as we take literally the texts foretelling that the walls of Babylon shall be cast down, so we ought to take literally the texts foretelling that the walls of Zion shall be built up—that as according to prophecy the Jews were literally scattered, so according to prophecy the Jews will be literally gathered—and that as the least and minutest predictions were made good on the subject of our Lord’s coming to suffer, so the minutest predictions shall be made good which describe our Lord’s coming to reign. And I have long felt it is one of the greatest shortcomings of the Church of Christ that we ministers do not preach enough about this advent of Christ, and that private believers do not think enough about it.' Source: http://www.pbministries.org/Eschatology/miscellaneous/ryle_01.htm Here’s a couple more from the Puritan commentaries on the whole Bible:

Matthew Poole, Commentary on the Bible, Vol. 3, pp. 519-520 [Comment on Romas 11.36]:
‘by Israel here (as in the precedent verse) you must understand, the nation and people of the Jews. And by all Israel is not meant every individual Israelite, but many, or (it may be) the greatest part of them. So all is to be taken in Scripture: see John 6:45; 1 Tim 2:6, and elsewhere. Look, as when he speaks of the conversion of the Gentiles, and the coming in of their fulness, there are many (too many of them) still unconverted; so, notwithstanding the general calling of the Jews, a great many of them may remain uncalled. As it is written; the apostle had this by revelation, but he proves it also by Scripture. All are not agreed from whence these testimonies are taken; the former is found (with some little variation) in Isa 59:20: as for the latter, some think it is taken from Jer 31:33. Others think, that he joineth two places in Isaiah together, (as he did before, Rom 11:8,) and the last words are taken out of Isa 27:9. The Seventy have the very words used by the apostle. These prophecies and promises, though they were in part fulfilled when Christ came in the flesh, (see Acts 3:26,) yet there will be a more full and complete accomplishment thereof upon the Jewish nation and people towards the end of the world.’

Matthew Henry, Commentary on the Whole Bible, Rom. 11.26:
‘The Jews shall continue in blindness, till God hath performed his whole work among the Gentiles, and then their turn will come next to be remembered. This was the purpose and ordination of God, for wise and holy ends; things should not be ripe for the Jews’ conversion till the church was replenished with the Gentiles, that it might appear that God’s taking them again was not because he had need of them, but of his own free grace … [Some] think that it is yet to have its accomplishment towards the end of the world-that those Jews which yet wonderfully remain distinct from the rest of the nations by their names, customs, and religion, and are very numerous, especially in the Levant parts, shall, by the working of the Spirit with the word, be convinced of their sin, and brought generally to embrace the Christian faith, and to join in with the Christian churches, which will contribute much to their strength and beauty. Alas! who shall live when God doeth this?’

J.C. Ryle comes after the Puritan era of course, but he’s one of my favorite reformed devotional writers, and he also adds some interesting thoughts to the discussion:
‘It always seemed to me that as we take literally the texts foretelling that the walls of Babylon shall be cast down, so we ought to take literally the texts foretelling that the walls of Zion shall be built up—that as according to prophecy the Jews were literally scattered, so according to prophecy the Jews will be literally gathered—and that as the least and minutest predictions were made good on the subject of our Lord’s coming to suffer, so the minutest predictions shall be made good which describe our Lord’s coming to reign. And I have long felt it is one of the greatest shortcomings of the Church of Christ that we ministers do not preach enough about this advent of Christ, and that private believers do not think enough about it.’
Source: http://www.pbministries.org/Eschatology/miscellaneous/ryle_01.htm

]]> by: Greg http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/19/mondays-mystery-quotation-quiz/#comment-12796 Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:48:09 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/19/mondays-mystery-quotation-quiz/#comment-12796 Here are my guesses: 1.B 2.C 3.A 4.A 5.A 6.A 7.C 8.A 9.A 10.B 11.A Here are my guesses:
1.B
2.C
3.A
4.A
5.A
6.A
7.C
8.A
9.A
10.B
11.A

]]> by: Words » Blog Archive » Blogs in Review 3/19/07 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/19/mondays-mystery-quotation-quiz/#comment-12776 Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:49:59 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/19/mondays-mystery-quotation-quiz/#comment-12776 [...] The Puplit Magazine (http://www.sfpulpit.com) has their Monday quiz. This one is on the topic of Israel and the future. Can you guess the quotes? [...] […] The Puplit Magazine (http://www.sfpulpit.com) has their Monday quiz. This one is on the topic of Israel and the future. Can you guess the quotes? […]

]]> by: donsands http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/19/mondays-mystery-quotation-quiz/#comment-12773 Mon, 19 Mar 2007 12:16:33 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/19/mondays-mystery-quotation-quiz/#comment-12773 I'll give it a go. 1. A 2. C 3. B 4. A 5. C 6. B 7. C 8. A 9. A 10. B 11. A I’ll give it a go.
1. A 2. C 3. B 4. A 5. C 6. B 7. C 8. A 9. A 10. B
11. A

]]>