Comments on: Let’s Start with the End http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/ A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:54:00 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: MacArthur: Why Every Self-Respecting Calvinist Should be a Premillenialist « Faith by Hearing http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/comment-page-1/#comment-12092 MacArthur: Why Every Self-Respecting Calvinist Should be a Premillenialist « Faith by Hearing Fri, 16 Mar 2007 03:21:22 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/#comment-12092 [...] Pulpit Magazine is currently doing a series answering key objections in End Times Q&A here>>> [...] [...] Pulpit Magazine is currently doing a series answering key objections in End Times Q&A here>>> [...]

]]> By: Michael http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/comment-page-1/#comment-11850 Michael Wed, 14 Mar 2007 18:04:39 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/#comment-11850 I for one enjoyed very much John's Opening Session. As he has done through out the 27 years I've read his books and heard him speak, I left thinking 'This is what I believe that Scriptures teaches on this and I'm glad some one has said it'. Michael I for one enjoyed very much John’s Opening Session. As he has done through out the 27 years I’ve read his books and heard him speak, I left thinking ‘This is what I believe that Scriptures teaches on this and I’m glad some one has said it’. Michael

]]> By: Words » Blog Archive » Premillenialism vs. Amillenialism http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/comment-page-1/#comment-11816 Words » Blog Archive » Premillenialism vs. Amillenialism Wed, 14 Mar 2007 12:21:04 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/#comment-11816 [...] Resources on Premil Eschatology. [...] [...] Resources on Premil Eschatology. [...]

]]> By: David http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/comment-page-1/#comment-11798 David Wed, 14 Mar 2007 03:31:06 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/#comment-11798 Christ is in our midst! At somepoint during this discussion over the next few weeks it would be appropriate to address the below posts by Dr. Kim Riddlebarger on this specific topic. They are worthy of a response. <a href="http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/the-latest-post/2007/3/10/a-quick-list-of-amillennial-resources-in-light-of-macarthurs-charges.html" rel="nofollow">A Quick List of Amillennial Resources in Light of MacArthur's Charges</a> <a href="http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/the-latest-post/2007/3/7/with-all-due-respect-to-dr-macarthur-.html" rel="nofollow">With All Due Respect to Dr. MacArthur...</a> <a href="http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/the-latest-post/2007/3/13/why-john-macarthur-is-not-reformed.html" rel="nofollow">Why John MacArthur Is Not "Reformed"</a> Christ is in our midst!

At somepoint during this discussion over the next few weeks it would be appropriate to address the below posts by Dr. Kim Riddlebarger on this specific topic. They are worthy of a response.

A Quick List of Amillennial Resources in Light of MacArthur’s Charges

With All Due Respect to Dr. MacArthur…

Why John MacArthur Is Not “Reformed”

]]> By: Jay http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/comment-page-1/#comment-11787 Jay Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:11:07 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/#comment-11787 sarah, I think it is said best in the latest blogpost: The New Covenant was made with Israel, with the Jews (Heb. 8:8, 10). The New Covenant is not made with the church. Rather, it is made with the same people the Old Covenant was made with: Israel. Gentiles can be beneficiaries of the New Covenant, just like they could be beneficiaries of the Old (cf. Gen. 12:3). But both covenants were made with Israel alone. Israel as a nation rejected God by rejecting His Son. But God has never rejected Israel, nor has He transferred His covenant with her to anyone else. For the time being, the Gentiles share in the blessings of the New Covenant—as spiritual descendants of Abraham (Gal. 3:7–8, 29). But this does not negate the unconditional nature of the New Covenant made with ethnic Israel. One day, after Gentiles have had sufficient time to respond to the gospel, all Israel will be saved (Rom. 11:26). She will be grafted back into the trunk of covenant salvation (cf. Rom. 11:17–24). sarah,

I think it is said best in the latest blogpost:

The New Covenant was made with Israel, with the Jews (Heb. 8:8, 10). The New Covenant is not made with the church. Rather, it is made with the same people the Old Covenant was made with: Israel. Gentiles can be beneficiaries of the New Covenant, just like they could be beneficiaries of the Old (cf. Gen. 12:3). But both covenants were made with Israel alone. Israel as a nation rejected God by rejecting His Son. But God has never rejected Israel, nor has He transferred His covenant with her to anyone else.

For the time being, the Gentiles share in the blessings of the New Covenant—as spiritual descendants of Abraham (Gal. 3:7–8, 29). But this does not negate the unconditional nature of the New Covenant made with ethnic Israel. One day, after Gentiles have had sufficient time to respond to the gospel, all Israel will be saved (Rom. 11:26). She will be grafted back into the trunk of covenant salvation (cf. Rom. 11:17–24).

]]> By: sarah http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/comment-page-1/#comment-11763 sarah Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:05:50 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/#comment-11763 Jay, the problem is simple. Premill's/dispen's have got the wrong definition of who Israel is. When you get this wrong you get everything wrong. "Realize that it is not as though the Gentiles are a superior race or somehow smarter, better-able-to-keep-a-covenant-with-God, or anything else." no, your right, like the Jews, Gentiles are just as depraved and in need of a Savior. Jay,
the problem is simple. Premill’s/dispen’s have got the wrong definition of who Israel is. When you get this wrong you get everything wrong.
“Realize that it is not as though the Gentiles are a superior race or somehow smarter, better-able-to-keep-a-covenant-with-God, or anything else.” no, your right, like the Jews, Gentiles are just as depraved and in need of a Savior.

]]> By: Jay http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/comment-page-1/#comment-11732 Jay Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:41:10 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/#comment-11732 I apologize in advance for the typos in those posts (like writing "generate" instead of "regenerate") and not explaining as clearly as I probably should have that I am speaking in a way to hopefully make one rethink the concept of the all-conquering Church, when I say things like "we are only even able to partake in this great salvation because of their rejecting Him". I think I clarified what I mean well enough when two sentences later I say that it is only God's sovereign grace and plan for redemption that we are partakers and certainly it was not as though it was up to the Jews, but again, early morning posts often don't make points as clearly as one intends. =/ I apologize in advance for the typos in those posts (like writing “generate” instead of “regenerate”) and not explaining as clearly as I probably should have that I am speaking in a way to hopefully make one rethink the concept of the all-conquering Church, when I say things like “we are only even able to partake in this great salvation because of their rejecting Him”. I think I clarified what I mean well enough when two sentences later I say that it is only God’s sovereign grace and plan for redemption that we are partakers and certainly it was not as though it was up to the Jews, but again, early morning posts often don’t make points as clearly as one intends. =/

]]> By: Jay http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/comment-page-1/#comment-11731 Jay Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:35:55 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/#comment-11731 oh and aspect #2 to their rejecting Christ was that they would then be apostate and go through trial and tribulation until the time of His return. Satan would love to destroy the Jews and thus invalidate God's eternal promises to them to try to prove God a liar. While God has allowed much persecution of them, He has also sovereignly guided them through it all. There IS a reason why Jews are back in their land, though we know it is only partially fulfilling since they are yet to be renewed in heart and mind and do not fully control their land and have much yet to go through. But regardless of the realities of history and this present time for the Jews, there is something to be said for a proper perspective on the Church age. Christians from a replacement/amill perspective think much too highly of the Church and that is part of why Christianity (I am speaking of the group of people labeled as such though many of whom are not genererate or truly followers of Christ) is growing more and more apostate and heading in a downward spiral. They think too highly of themselves - as if God prototyped his "chosen people" with Israel but then *bam* new, improved Version 2.0, the Church, is now the chosen people. It's a silly mindset yet one that is common among those who deviate from a consistent contextual-literal hermeneutic. It smells a lot like the "master race" mentality of Hitler and in reality is indeed a strong cause for anti-semetism by Christians and especially anti-Zionism (that is, not supporting the Jews' return to and establishment of Israel). oh and aspect #2 to their rejecting Christ was that they would then be apostate and go through trial and tribulation until the time of His return. Satan would love to destroy the Jews and thus invalidate God’s eternal promises to them to try to prove God a liar. While God has allowed much persecution of them, He has also sovereignly guided them through it all. There IS a reason why Jews are back in their land, though we know it is only partially fulfilling since they are yet to be renewed in heart and mind and do not fully control their land and have much yet to go through.

But regardless of the realities of history and this present time for the Jews, there is something to be said for a proper perspective on the Church age. Christians from a replacement/amill perspective think much too highly of the Church and that is part of why Christianity (I am speaking of the group of people labeled as such though many of whom are not genererate or truly followers of Christ) is growing more and more apostate and heading in a downward spiral. They think too highly of themselves – as if God prototyped his “chosen people” with Israel but then *bam* new, improved Version 2.0, the Church, is now the chosen people. It’s a silly mindset yet one that is common among those who deviate from a consistent contextual-literal hermeneutic. It smells a lot like the “master race” mentality of Hitler and in reality is indeed a strong cause for anti-semetism by Christians and especially anti-Zionism (that is, not supporting the Jews’ return to and establishment of Israel).

]]> By: Jay http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/comment-page-1/#comment-11730 Jay Tue, 13 Mar 2007 11:27:41 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/#comment-11730 sarah somewhere in the answer to your question is the reality that the Jews have been persecuted since the rejection of the Messiah at His first coming, which supports what Scripture says would happen to them as a result of rejecting Christ. There are two aspects to consider: 1 - the necessity of their rejecting Christ so that the gospel would then proceed to be available to the Gentiles. Ponder that for a while. Consider how we are only even able to partake in this great salvation because of their rejecting Him. Realize that it is not as though the Gentiles are a superior race or somehow smarter, better-able-to-keep-a-covenant-with-God, or anything else. It is simply God's sovereign grace that we have been able to share in His redemptive plan. And so, logically, as God says in Ezekiel 36, He will still keep his promises to Israel (the Jews) for His namesake (i.e. not dependent on their performance, because He foreknew they would be unable to and thus why He made the covenant unilaterally). He is simply allowing the apostate Jews who rejected Him to endure many things until the time of His revelation to them as the Messiah as foretold in Scripture. Actually I'm not really sure why I'm even writing this since MacArthur says it all so very clearly in his message. And a general comment not directed toward anyone: MacArthur speaks gently yet firmly, with clarity and at a pace that one can easily follow (especially with the Pause button on our mp3 playing software). It will forever mystify me how people can hear something simple and yet still not understand it (or perhaps just refuse to accept it). sarah somewhere in the answer to your question is the reality that the Jews have been persecuted since the rejection of the Messiah at His first coming, which supports what Scripture says would happen to them as a result of rejecting Christ. There are two aspects to consider: 1 – the necessity of their rejecting Christ so that the gospel would then proceed to be available to the Gentiles. Ponder that for a while.
Consider how we are only even able to partake in this great salvation because of their rejecting Him.
Realize that it is not as though the Gentiles are a superior race or somehow smarter, better-able-to-keep-a-covenant-with-God, or anything else. It is simply God’s sovereign grace that we have been able to share in His redemptive plan. And so, logically, as God says in Ezekiel 36, He will still keep his promises to Israel (the Jews) for His namesake (i.e. not dependent on their performance, because He foreknew they would be unable to and thus why He made the covenant unilaterally). He is simply allowing the apostate Jews who rejected Him to endure many things until the time of His revelation to them as the Messiah as foretold in Scripture.
Actually I’m not really sure why I’m even writing this since MacArthur says it all so very clearly in his message.
And a general comment not directed toward anyone: MacArthur speaks gently yet firmly, with clarity and at a pace that one can easily follow (especially with the Pause button on our mp3 playing software). It will forever mystify me how people can hear something simple and yet still not understand it (or perhaps just refuse to accept it).

]]> By: Catch of the Day « Unbound http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/comment-page-1/#comment-11718 Catch of the Day « Unbound Tue, 13 Mar 2007 07:39:03 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/03/12/lets-start-with-eschatology/#comment-11718 [...] Raise an eyebrow as: Pulpit’s slightly one sided list gets some help from the comment section. Read a good book…review: Challies reviews The Reformation: How a Monk and a Mallet Changed the World. Looks like a must read. [...] [...] Raise an eyebrow as: Pulpit’s slightly one sided list gets some help from the comment section. Read a good book…review: Challies reviews The Reformation: How a Monk and a Mallet Changed the World. Looks like a must read. [...]

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