I will not get caught up in all the arguing implied in your post, with all the embedded assumptions in every sentence, many of which I disagree with. But even though I disagree with them, I have a lot of challenges facing me on the home front.

God’s speed to you.

Whyte Stonne

You have never answered my two original questions.

You have strongly implied that you believe on Jesus’ name. I do not believe so. If you believe Jesus you would obey Him.

If you say you love Jesus, but fail to obey Him you are not saved. This is a theme of I John. You do not obey Jesus if you deny His teachings consciously.

You have refused, so far, to affirm the inerrancy of the Scriptures, but Jesus, said, “Thy Word is Truth.”

You have denied the eternality of hell and the suffering of the damned, but Jesus said, “Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.” Speaking through Isaiah, He said, “”Then they will go forth and look on the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me for their worm will not die and their fire will not be quenched; and they will be an abhorrence to all mankind.”

You have strongly implied that it is not necessary to even know anything about why you are saved. But Jesus, through Paul, said, “For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.” And He said, “How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, ‘HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!’”

You seemed to indicate that you do not believe you are deserving hell, except for the substitution of Christ’s death for your eternal punishment. But Jesus was baptized by the man who said, “Behold, the Lamb of God Who takes away the sin of the world.”

There a few ways in which you are disobeying Christ. He started His gospel ministry with “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

Have you done that? Have you become obedient to Jesus? Is there such a thing as a right answer? Does the Bible have the right to tell you how to think?

In Christ,
Phil Perkins.

It has occurred to me that your invitation to phone you this weekend was a genuine attempt on your part to engage me on a different level, one different from one of potential debate. If it was, please forgive my suspicions.

If that is the case, I think you will understand the existence of a certain mutual wariness.

Whyte

My, my! You seem pretty sure you have a heretic in your clutches, eh? Well, let me make it easy for you—you do! The problem is that you may have to share a bunk in heaven with this heretic. I promise you I won’t give you an “I-told-you-so”! (I’m pretty sure you can put in for a new room assignment, if you want.)

First, you say you recall me “publicly supporting heretics who deny these beliefs.” You’ll need to be more specific. I pretty sure I haven’t supported anybody in these forums, except to agree with other individuals who post here. If you are talking about Brian McLaren, I haven’t even read anything by Brian McLaren. (“Do not bear false witness.”)

Usually I’m just presenting interpretations of Scripture.

Second, you say you recall me “denying the inerrancy of Scriptures.” I don’t remember ever denying the inerrancy of Scripture. What I did say was that if it were proven to me that there were errors in the Bible, it wouldn’t matter to me. My faith in Christ would remain intact, my faith in the Scriptures would remain intact. My faith is not dependent upon inerrancy. (“Do not bear false witness.”

[Congratulations, Phil! You avoided embarrassing misstatement with the disclaimer, “I recall.” Good job!)

Third, you ask, “Do you believe He God and virgin born?” Yes, I believe that Jesus the Messiah was (and is) God, and was born of a virgin.

Fourth (are we there yet?), Phil asks, “Do you believe you are deserving hell, except for the substitution of Christ’s death for your eternal punishment?”

Answer: There is nothing in Scripture which says that sinners are sent to hell for eternal conscious torment. 1) Hell was created for the devil and his angels. 2) There is no Scripture which says that human beings have “an eternal soul.” Eternal life is a gift from God. You don’t have eternal existence unless God has given that gift to you. (I can only imagine how happy you must be right now, Phil. “Whyte really IS a heretic!”)

Let’s see, where are we? Ah, fifth, *sigh* you ask me:

“Do you believe only those who repent a follow Him will be saved from eternal hell?”

I’ve already answered that. Hell is only eternal for the devil and his angels, whom I assume to be eternal beings.

By the way—I don’t presume to know whom God will be letting into heaven. I lean heavily on what God the Messiah said in the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. Those humans acceptable to God will be clueless as to why they are let into heaven at all. And—their acceptability to God is not a 90% on a doctrinal quiz. It is entirely behavioral.

How much compassion do you have on people, Phil? You seem really high on the demanding, fault-finding scale and fairly low on the compassion scale. Maybe the mind-set required by teaching Greek and Hebrew are not compatible right now with an area God would like to see some growth in. Just a thought.

Jesus Christ’s determination of YOUR acceptability to him is based on your compassion towards people and how you treat them. That would be a terrible quiz to flunk out on, my friend. But that’s between you and your Master. You don’t answer to me.

But enough of that. Where were we? Ah, yes. Number six: “Do you believe He was bodily, literally resurrected?” Yes, I do.

Numberrrrrr seven: “What exactly do you mean, you believe in the Name of Christ?” Forgive me if I seem to hesitate over this one, but this is probably the most important question of the batch. It means several things. “And his name shall be called Emmanuel, which means, God with Us.” Yes, I believe that Jesus the Messiah was God come in the flesh. (There’s a no-brainer)

Second, I believe in Jesus, but not just that he existed. I believe the kind of life he lead was the best kind of life.

He lived to eliminate false ideas of relating to God from the minds of the common women and men of his day. The false idea of a God who lives to punish you if you erred to the slightest degree was a polluted concept that Jesus died to combat.

God the Messiah lived to communicate Abba’s compassion for the victims of religious tyranny. His life was devoted to confronting crusading religious leaders who presumed to know (from Scripture) who was acceptable to God and who was not. This is what Jesus’ name represents to me.

I hope this meets with your approval.

Oh, I guess not. That question about whether hell is eternal for human beings or not. That’s heresy according to you, right? Now, I’ve had very little exposure to the Seventh Day Adventists (I arrived at this belief from the Bible, not an Adventist teacher), but my belief in the annihilation of the soul happens to be found among Adventists.

Dr. Walter Martin wrote that “it is perfectly possible to be a Seventh-day Adventist and be a true follower of Jesus Christ despite heterodox concepts.”

Ooops! I see I am not finished with the interrogation. You had two other questions:

1. Is there such a thing as a right answer?
2. Does the Bible have the right to tell you how to think?

Then you wrote, “The point of the two questions is simply this: If one cannot answer “yes, I believe,” one is not a believer.”

Please, Phil. You can’t be serious. Did you really mean to say, “If you can’t answer “yes, I believe,” to the question, “Is there such a thing as a right answer,” that “one is not a believer”!?!

I suppose you could have meant something besides “Believer,” as in “a Believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.” You could have meant, “believer in the ground rules of Christian debate,” or something similar.

But more seriously, do you believe God allows people’s eternal destiny to hinge on a discussion of epistemology?

I know there are things that actually do hinge on a discussion of epistemology, though. Winning in a game of verbal combat (debate) can hinge on a question of epistemology. For some reason, the image of a Jousting Tournament comes to mind when I think of you.

A game of chess can depend on your opening moves, too. With you, if you catch a whiff of something that smells like independent thinking, you go into combat mode. Your aim is to dominate the game, whatever game it is. You HAVE to win, or else you can’t stand it.

What makes you so dreadfully competitive?

(Feel free to use the images of the Jousting Tournament and the opening moves of a chess game as you discuss Combat with Emergents, Phil. There’s nothing particularly original about them!)

BTW, are you a fire-fighter in the summer? At Yosemite?

Oh, just in case–no, I’m not angry, although I know you have read anger into my responses on two different occasions. I’m just trying to answer your questions directly and to the point.

Now it’s your turn:

1) What makes you so dreadfully competitive?

2) Are you a fire-fighter in the summer?

3) At Yosemite?

I ask these things because I recall you denying the inerrancy of Scriptures where we learn such things and I recall you publicly supporting heretics who deny these beliefs.

In Christ,
Phil Perkins.

The Book of Proverbs highly exalts several virtues: insight, understanding, and wisdom. In the past I have sought insight and understanding into the differences and similarities between you and me. I looked for common ground, similar experiences, given our similarity in age, education, etc.

I discussed some of the difficulties and disappointments I have had in my Christian life. I also asserted difficulties I could see you had experienced in yours.

You dismissed my attempts to get understanding and insight (strong Biblical values) into our similarities as my “ouija board” needing an adjustment, as “pop psychology,” and as “blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.”

I do think about you. I assume you’ve burned bridges in your conflicts with Yellowstone Baptist College, with Iggy, and with others. (Yes, I have done what you called in your blog “cyber-snooping.” Just googling, actually.) And I know that Billings, MT, is a small town under a deep blanket of snow.

I’d enjoy talking with you, too, getting to know you better, but I’m afraid you would abuse pearls of friendship and just turn and rend me, as Jesus says often happens.

So I won’t be calling.

Phil.

“Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.”

I’m a believer.

I’m glad that’s finally settled!