Comments on: A Short KJV Detour (Part 1) http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/ A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:00:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.4 by: Dan http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-107482 Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:29:26 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-107482 Brian, you said..."I believe that the Geneva Bible especially the 1599 edition, had a great influence of the translators of the AV in 1611. " If my history serves me well, you are right, it did. King James wanted a uniquely English version so that his English subjects wouldn't wouldn't be so pursuaded to the Calvinist translation with John Calvin's notes. Especially when it translated "congregation" rather than "church." It was all about politics and control. The RCC rejected it because it was a contemporary translation, not the Authorized version of the day (Vulgate). Brian, you said…”I believe that the Geneva Bible especially the 1599 edition, had a great influence of the translators of the AV in 1611. ”
If my history serves me well, you are right, it did. King James wanted a uniquely English version so that his English subjects wouldn’t wouldn’t be so pursuaded to the Calvinist translation with John Calvin’s notes. Especially when it translated “congregation” rather than “church.” It was all about politics and control. The RCC rejected it because it was a contemporary translation, not the Authorized version of the day (Vulgate).

]]> by: Chris Ellis http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-60443 Sun, 23 Sep 2007 22:23:10 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-60443 As a former KJV onlyist, I was flattened when I took my first Church history class and learned from the history books that God Himself saw fit to have His word translated from the Hebrew in which it was initially penned to the common language of the day, the koine Greek. And yet we sit here and deny the possibility that the same God wouldn't provide a version of His word for common folk today? I would argue that God has preserved His word in all of its nuances in many different versions. "Which one is perfect?" the white washed tombs will asked. The one that leads the reader to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Now, come down of your high horses, and get down amongst the people! If they are struggling with the KJV, then find them one they can understand! NASB, ESV, or even and NIRV (third grade reading level). It's sad to admit that I have had to minister to people who have struggled for years choking on the Word of God because legalism has taught that only the KJV is God's word. Once a persecutor of God's people in this very area, I now work to restore the ones I helped to discourage. As a former KJV onlyist, I was flattened when I took my first Church history class and learned from the history books that God Himself saw fit to have His word translated from the Hebrew in which it was initially penned to the common language of the day, the koine Greek. And yet we sit here and deny the possibility that the same God wouldn’t provide a version of His word for common folk today?

I would argue that God has preserved His word in all of its nuances in many different versions. “Which one is perfect?” the white washed tombs will asked. The one that leads the reader to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Now, come down of your high horses, and get down amongst the people! If they are struggling with the KJV, then find them one they can understand! NASB, ESV, or even and NIRV (third grade reading level).

It’s sad to admit that I have had to minister to people who have struggled for years choking on the Word of God because legalism has taught that only the KJV is God’s word. Once a persecutor of God’s people in this very area, I now work to restore the ones I helped to discourage.

]]> by: Eric http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-59827 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 20:41:02 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-59827 Will says: Without exception, those who criticize this verse and others like it, none of them believes ANY bible in any language is the complete and infallible words of God. All they have to offer you is their own variable opinions and personal preferences - but no infallible book of the LORD. What I don't understand is, that if our scholarship has advanced, scholarship by Christians, and we have older and better MSS, why cling to an inferior translation? There's no conspiracy brother. Shouldn't we be trying to come as close as possible to true inerrancy? In fact, if you're for translations in native tongues to non-English speakers, fundamentally, what's the difference? We're not talking about liberal gender inclusive translations. We're talking about the pure Word. Will says:

Without exception, those who criticize this verse and others like it, none of them believes ANY bible in any language is the complete and infallible words of God. All they have to offer you is their own variable opinions and personal preferences - but no infallible book of the LORD.

What I don’t understand is, that if our scholarship has advanced, scholarship by Christians, and we have older and better MSS, why cling to an inferior translation?
There’s no conspiracy brother. Shouldn’t we be trying to come as close as possible to true inerrancy? In fact, if you’re for translations in native tongues to non-English speakers, fundamentally, what’s the difference? We’re not talking about liberal gender inclusive translations. We’re talking about the pure Word.

]]> by: Thomas Morris http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-32331 Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:19:18 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-32331 Wow, it is something to read all you higher intellectuals comment on the KJV only controversy. It is also interesting to see how you misquote Ruckman. Several of you claim that he believes that you can only get God's words in English. This is not true. You ask the question what if you don't speak English, what if you speak French, Chinese or some other language? Ruckman has recommendations for those people as well, and no it's not the KJV. I don't think I could add much more to my stand, then what Will Kinney has stated. Other then this, I don't read, use and/or believe the KJV because it's what I "prefer", but because I believe it to be the book that God has chosen/preserved for me. I can say that I have the "W-O-R-D-S" of God, can you? - Thomas Morris - Wow, it is something to read all you higher intellectuals comment on the KJV only controversy. It is also interesting to see how you misquote Ruckman. Several of you claim that he believes that you can only get God’s words in English. This is not true. You ask the question what if you don’t speak English, what if you speak French, Chinese or some other language? Ruckman has recommendations for those people as well, and no it’s not the KJV. I don’t think I could add much more to my stand, then what Will Kinney has stated. Other then this, I don’t read, use and/or believe the KJV because it’s what I “prefer”, but because I believe it to be the book that God has chosen/preserved for me. I can say that I have the “W-O-R-D-S” of God, can you?

- Thomas Morris -

]]> by: Tim Brown http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-18412 Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:40:28 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-18412 Gabriel: As has already been said by another reader, you hit the nail on the head! This is something that I have been thinking for a while now, regarding requiring people in other countries to learn English just to get the gospel from a KJV Bible? That makes no sense and I believe it to be highly presumptuous --- for no man knows when the end of his, or someone else's, life will come. And I would add, do these people really think that God built His Church using something other than His Word until 1611??? Puzzling. Why would it take the sovereign God of the Universe 1600 plus years to get His Word to his people? Wow! Tim Gabriel:

As has already been said by another reader, you hit the nail on the head! This is something that I have been thinking for a while now, regarding requiring people in other countries to learn English just to get the gospel from a KJV Bible? That makes no sense and I believe it to be highly presumptuous — for no man knows when the end of his, or someone else’s, life will come.

And I would add, do these people really think that God built His Church using something other than His Word until 1611??? Puzzling. Why would it take the sovereign God of the Universe 1600 plus years to get His Word to his people? Wow!

Tim

]]> by: Scott Eckles http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-17070 Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:21:27 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-17070 Much like the Charismatic health, wealth and prosperity gospel, this belief is only workable in the western, english speaking world. Should our missionaries in foreign lands be teaching English first and then teaching the AV? I know missionaries that hold to the Peter Ruckman brand of kJV only beliefs mentioned in the article above. In fact they graduated from his bible college. But, they teach the bible in the language of the people to whom they are ministering, not in English. They ask; If the KJV isn't the word of God then where is it? which reminds me of the classic "can God build a rock so big that he cannot lift it?" Just because they can ask a question that results in a dilemma does not mean that the question has merit or truth as its motive or foundation. Blessings Much like the Charismatic health, wealth and prosperity gospel, this belief is only workable in the western, english speaking world. Should our missionaries in foreign lands be teaching English first and then teaching the AV? I know missionaries that hold to the Peter Ruckman brand of kJV only beliefs mentioned in the article above. In fact they graduated from his bible college. But, they teach the bible in the language of the people to whom they are ministering, not in English. They ask; If the KJV isn’t the word of God then where is it? which reminds me of the classic “can God build a rock so big that he cannot lift it?” Just because they can ask a question that results in a dilemma does not mean that the question has merit or truth as its motive or foundation. Blessings

]]> by: Will Kinney http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-12869 Tue, 20 Mar 2007 02:02:17 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-12869 Hi saints. In regards to the erroneous statements regarding Acts 9:6, here is an article to consider. Without exception, those who criticize this verse and others like it, none of them believes ANY bible in any language is the complete and infallible words of God. All they have to offer you is their own variable opinions and personal preferences - but no infallible book of the LORD. http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/Acts9-5-6.html All of grace, Will Kinney Hi saints. In regards to the erroneous statements regarding Acts 9:6, here is an article to consider. Without exception, those who criticize this verse and others like it, none of them believes ANY bible in any language is the complete and infallible words of God. All they have to offer you is their own variable opinions and personal preferences - but no infallible book of the LORD.

http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/Acts9-5-6.html

All of grace,

Will Kinney

]]> by: MacArthur & Company on KJV Onlyism « Fundamentally Reformed http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-12569 Sun, 18 Mar 2007 02:12:07 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-12569 [...] Part 1 [...] […] Part 1 […]

]]> by: Will Kinney http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-10325 Sun, 04 Mar 2007 20:57:37 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-10325 Hi all. As I read through the comments here it is plain that none of you who are not King James Bible only believes that there is such a thing as a complete, inspired and inerrant Bible. This is not a salvation issue; God can and does save His people using just a few words or short verses found in any bible version out there, no matter how corrupt or inferiour it might be. However the central issue that you all seem to overlook is this: Is there such a thing as a complete and inerrant Bible in any language here on this earth today? Most of you do not believe such a thing exists, and you each end up becoming your own final authority and none of you agrees 100% of the time with anybody else. "In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did that which was right in his own eyes." Judges 21:25 I do have a website defending the Book. I invite you to take a look at it. Here is one article I wrote that you might like to consider. It is called Everyman For Himself Bible Versions. This is where most of you are right now. http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/everyman.html All of grace, Accepted in the Beloved, Will Kinney Hi all. As I read through the comments here it is plain that none of you who are not King James Bible only believes that there is such a thing as a complete, inspired and inerrant Bible. This is not a salvation issue; God can and does save His people using just a few words or short verses found in any bible version out there, no matter how corrupt or inferiour it might be.

However the central issue that you all seem to overlook is this: Is there such a thing as a complete and inerrant Bible in any language here on this earth today?

Most of you do not believe such a thing exists, and you each end up becoming your own final authority and none of you agrees 100% of the time with anybody else. “In those days there was no king in Israel; every man did that which was right in his own eyes.” Judges 21:25

I do have a website defending the Book. I invite you to take a look at it.

Here is one article I wrote that you might like to consider. It is called Everyman For Himself Bible Versions. This is where most of you are right now.

http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/everyman.html

All of grace, Accepted in the Beloved,

Will Kinney

]]> by: Pulpit Live Takes on the King James Version debate and seeks to clarify their position : The World According to Me http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-6851 Sat, 27 Jan 2007 23:49:28 +0000 http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/#comment-6851 [...] http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/ [...] […] http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/18/a-short-kjv-detour-part-1/ […]

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