The When Question (Part 3): 1 Corinthians 1
January 17th, 2007
(By Nathan Busenitz)
Though often overlooked in this debate, 1 Corinthians 1:4–9 is a passage that some have suggested “implies that the gifts of the Spirit are operative until ‘our Lord Jesus Christ is revealed’ (C. Samuel Storms, Are Miraculous Gifts for Today? Four Views, p. 205).
The text itself reads as follows:
(4) I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, (5) that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge, (6) even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, (7) so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, (8) who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. (9) God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
Does verse 7 imply that the spiritual gifts enjoyed by the Corinthians will endure until the second coming of Christ?
Interestingly, commentators are pretty well divided over this issue—on a couple fronts. For instance, not all commentators agree that the “gift” (charismati) of verse 7 is referring, in a specific sense, to the “spiritual gifts” of chapters 12–14. The word “gift” does not appear with the adjective “spiritual.” And Paul uses “gift” elsewhere in this letter to refer to non-miraculous gifts (such as the “gift” of singleness in 7:7; cf. 2 Cor. 1:11). He also uses it elsewhere to speak of salvation through Christ (Rom. 5:15; 6:23). The general nature of Paul’s introduction, and his emphasis on soteriological grace (from conversion to consummation) also suggest this conclusion. Thus, even charismatic commentators (such as Gordon Fee) recognize the possibility that Paul is using “gift” here in a general redemptive, rather than a special miraculous, sense.
On the flip side, Paul’s reference to “speech” and “knowledge” (in verse 5) does seem to set the stage for his later discussion regarding revelatory gifts (from tongues and prophecy to wisdom and knowledge). So perhaps a little of both is at play in this text. After all, in a period when all of the charismatic gifts were undeniably in operation, Paul could have easily spoken of all of the gifts of grace (both redemptive and miraculous/charismatic) in a general sense. Then again, the speech and knowledge of verse 5 could have more to do with providing a God-ordained contrast to the philosophical wisdom of the world (which Paul will immediately discuss in chapters 1-3).
It is interesting to note that God the Father and God the Son are referenced multiple times in this passage. If the special gifts of the Spirit are primarily in view here, it is noteworthy that the Person of the Spirit is not mentioned.
Commentators also seem to be split on the relationship between the two phrases, “so that you are not lacking in any gift” and “awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Some see no temporal link between the two phrases (or at least make no mention of it in their comments on the text). In other words, they do not assert that the second phrase is an indication (or implication) of how long the gifts will last.
Others do see a link, claiming that the gifts of verse 7 will last until the revelation of Christ at His return. Of these scholars, those who interpret the gifts redemptively, contend that the grace of salvation will continue until the Lord returns. On the other hand, those who interpret the gifts more specifically (in terms of 1 Corinthians 12–14) contend that it is the miraculous/charismatic gifts which will continue. These charismatic commentators generally support their interpretation by pointing to 1 Corinthians 13:8–10, basing their understanding of 1 Corinthians 1:7 on that later text.
Grammatically and contextually, I don’t think the case can ultimately be proven either way. Even if one concludes that the gifts in view here are specifically the gifts of 1 Corinthians 12–14 (which is highly debatable), the interpreter must be cautious not to read more into Paul’s introductory comments than is actually there. Paul’s purpose here is to introduce his epistle in a general sense (by means of thanksgiving and encouragement). He will get to specifics (regarding the special miraculous gifts) later in the letter.
The bottom line is that apostle does not explicitly say (in this text) that the gifts will last until the return of Christ. Rather, he urges the Corinthians (who were the blessed recipients of divine grace) to continue in their eager expectation for Christ’s return (when the grace that they enjoyed now, in part, would be realized in full.) The implied duration that charismatic commentators see in the text seems to be based more on a preceding theological presupposition (read in from 1 Cor. 13), than on conclusive exegetical data from this passage itself.
Ultimately, then, I do not believe the when question can be decisively or definitively answered from this text. The passage, which is an introductory word of thanksgiving (for the Corinthians’ salvation and state of spiritual blessing) and encouragement (that they would eagerly anticipate the return of Christ), leaves the when question open.
For those who are interested, here is an annotated list of the commentaries I consulted while working through this blog post (in alphabetical order).
Alford, Henry, The New Testament for English Readers, 977 – Alford concludes that the term “gift” in this context speaks of a “gift of grace” in its “widest sense, of that which is the effect of grace, — not meaning ‘spiritual gifts,’ in the narrower sense, as in ch. xii. 4. This is plain fro the whole strain of the passage, which dwells not on outward gifts, but on the inward graces of the Christian life” (p. 977). Nothing is stated about the duration of these gifts.
Barnett, Paul, 1 Corinthians, p. 21 – Barnett presents Paul’s mentioning of the return of Christ in almost an abrupt disjointed fashion. It related to their ongoing spiritual security (in redemption). Barnett says nothing about its relationship to their giftedness.
Barrett, C.K., The First Epistle to the Corinthians, pp. 38–39 emphasizes the fact that while gifts of grace are valuable, they are not the end of the Christian life. “Christians are what they are because through the Holy Spirit they have received gifts of grace, and they are what they are because, having been redeemed and called by the historic work of Christ they now look for his coming to comsummate [sic] his achievement.”
Clark, Gordon H. First Corinthians, p. 14 – Clark makes essentially no comment on the second half of verse 7. Instead he spends time arguing that the NAS and RSV translation of 1 Cor. 7a is a poor translation. Nothing is stated about the implied duration of the gifts.
Conzelmann, Hans, 1 Corinthians, p. 28 – Conzelmann notes that “With seeming abruptness Paul now passes over to an eschatological outlook. But this, too, is proemium style (Philippians). It gives expression to his idea of the church: the present working of the Spirit in the community is a foretoken of the future. At the same time the reference to the latter points to a limit; the possession of charismata is not yet the realization of the eschaton, but an earnest of what will be. The age of the Spirit is still the age of expectation—to be sure accompanied by positive signs of the working of divine powers.”
Edwards, Thomas Charles, A Commentary on the First Epistle to the Corinthians, p. 7 – Edwards argues that the present tense of hustereisthai (lacking) refers to the time covered by ebebaiothe (confirmed), “not to the time at which the Apostle was writing. They had been rich, but now they were impoverished in every grace.”
Fee, Gordon, The First Epistle to the Corinthians, NICNT, p. 41–43: Gordon Fee does not make an explicit connection between the duration of the gifts and the return of Christ from this text. Regarding verse 7 he writes (p. 42), “Why, then, this additional note about the coming of Christ? It may of course mean nothing more than that such a concern is ever present with the apostle himself, since salvation for Paul was primarily an eschatological reality, begun with Christ’s coming and to be consummated by his imminent return. But it is also probable in this instance that that ever present concern is heightened by the Corinthians’ own apparently overrealized eschatological understanding of their existence, which for them was related in particular to their experience of the ‘spiritual gift’ of tongues (see on 13:1). Paul’s gratitude for their giftedness, therefore, includes a reminder that they still await the final glory, since it seems to be the case that some among them do not have such eager expectation (see on 4:8 and 15:12).”
Farrar, F.W., 1 Corinthians, TPC, p. 24 – “Paul thus strives in every way [in this introduction] to take the Corinthians to their Father and to their Lord.”
Garland, David E., 1 Corinthians, BECNT, p. 34 – Garland does seem to indicate that the coming of Christ is the time at which the charismatic gifts will cease. He writes, “Being enriched with grace-gifts does not mean they have arrived…. He intimates that more is to come in Christ. Now they await … the revelation of Jesus Christ. The goal of the adventure to which God has called them still lies in the future (11:26), when tongues will cease and knowledge will become outmoded (13:8).” Garland thus ties this verse together with 1 Cor. 13:8.
Grosheide, F.W., Commentary on the First Epistle to the Corinthians, NICNT, p. 29-30 – Paul sometimes uses the word gift in the special sense of the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Spirit, given to the church in her first period (see especially ch. 12 – 14). However, we may not forget the general sense of the word gift. There is no absolute difference between the two meanings, as the latter is only the special meaning of the former.
In early Christian times people must have seen all the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the special as well as the permanent, as a unity. They were not differentiated, neither had the church as yet experienced that the special gifts were not going to remain. It is therefore better to take the word gift, the first time it is used, in its general sense and to consider the special gift as an example of the general gift. It is true, the apostle writes about these special gifts of the Spirit in quite some detail in 1 Corinthians. But vs. 7 forms the conclusion of a sentence which does not mention those special gifts. … All this pleads for taking the word gift in its general sense here, although at the same time it points forward to the special use, found in the latter part of the epistle.
Hays, R.B. First Corinthians, p. 18 – “Paul sets his thanksgiving for the Corinthians’ ‘giftedness’ within the framework of a not-yet-fulfillled hope…. No matter how richly blessed the community may be in the present, Paul insists that they have not yet received that for which the church ultimately longs: the revelation (apokalypsis) of Jesus Christ, his final coming again to triumph over the powers of evil and death (cf. 15:20–28).”
Hodge, Charles, An Exposition of the First Epistle to the Corinthians, p. 9 – “The Corinthians had received largely the gifts of the Spirit: the consequence was they waited with patience and desire for the revelation of Christ, when they should enter on that inheritance of which those gifts are the foretaste and pledge.”
Horsley, Richard A. 1 Corinthians, ANTC, p. 41 – Horsely notes, “ ‘As you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ’ (v. 7b) and the parallel relative clause (v. 8, a new sentence in the NRSV) place the Corinthians’ spiritual gifts in the context of the ‘day of [the] Lord.’ This is the typically Pauline orientation toward the imminent completion of the final events of history now underway…. Although Paul ordinarily speaks of the ‘return’ or ‘coming’ (parousia) of Christ, he may have used ‘revelation’ (apokalypsis) in verse 7b to emphasize that the final or full revelation involved still-awaited future events, in contrast with the partial revelations of prophecy and knowledge already experienced by himself and the Corinthians.”
Johnson, Alan F. , 1 Corinthians, IVP, p. 39 – “He gives thanks for the grace of God given to them, especially as seen in the wealth of spiritual gifts they had received in Christ. Yet this wealth, rich as it was, was only a foretaste of the fullness to be experienced at the revelation of Jesus in his second coming.” On p. 41 he adds, “But why refer to this event here [the second coming]? No doubt to bring further balance to a defective view of God’s kingdom present at Corinth. Throughout the letter, but especially at 4:8, this emphasis on the present realization of the future kingdom of God (realized eschatology) surfaces. Thus promise of the second coming not only encourages persecuted and suffering Christians, it also checks excessive enthusiasm for spiritual gifts and blessings in the present. Only the return of Christ will bring into the world the fullness of redemption (13:10).”
Kistemaker, Simon, 1 Corinthians, NTC, p. 40 – “The word gift appears here for the first time in this epistle, and in this context it does not mean ‘miracles’ (see 12:9, 28, 30). To interpret the word narrowly (i.e., as a miracle that serves to confirm the preaching of the gospel) would be restrictive and consequently unacceptable. We should not limit the term gift but rather interpret it in the broadest possible sense.”
Lenski, R.C.H., First Corinthians, p. 33 – “Since Paul is here speaking in general terms, ‘in no gift’ cannot refer to the special charismatic gifts of the early church but must point to the general gracious gifts of God with which true believers are always duly endowed, the spiritual blessings of Christianity in general.”
Oster, Richard E., 1 Corinthians, CPNIV, 46 – regarding v. 6 – “Pentecostal and Chrismatic interpreters, among others, tend to have the meaning of this verse supplemented by reference to (spiritual) gifts in 1:7, so that Paul is interpreted as teaching that the spiritual gifts, as presented most clearly in 12–14, are the source of enrichment and confirmation of the message of Christ. Other scholars infer a non-charismatic reading of 1:7 by looking more at the evidence regarding the confirmation of the testimony about Christ in: (1) the conversion stories from Corinth in Acts, (2) Pauline use of Scripture as confirmation, (3) Christian proclamation, and, (4) Paul’s references to the Spirit of sonship as providing confirming testimony. Since it seems that 1:6-7 (hoti) refers to the reasons for Paul’s thanksgiving in 1:4 and that 1:7 (hoste) refers to the intended results of receiving God’s grace (1:4), I don not find convincing Fee’s judgment….
[Later on p. 47, Oster continues] – “Verse 7 contains only the word gift (charisma) and not the word “spiritual.” Commentators such as John Calvin and Gordon Fee note that this use of gift in 1:7 may refer to the gift(s) of God associated with our salvation, rather than gifts as conventionally understood in chapters 12–14.
Situated on a spectrum of interpretations somewhere between the popular charismatic interpretation of gifts and the redemptive interpretation of gift, I would suggest that “gift” in 1:7 refers to gifts given by God to his people to facilitate their calling, but that Paul’s definition, as demonstrated by his use of charisma in 1 Cor 7:7, would be broader than those stereotypical Pentecostal items such as tongues.
Verse 7 concludes on an eschatological note, with expectant language reminiscent of Rom 8:18-25; Phil 3:20; and Gal 5:5, and makes it clear that the giftedness of the Corinthian church would not cease prior to the return and revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ. … The quintessential giftedness of the church expressed here fits with other statements of Paul about the church.”
Pratt, Richard L., 1 & 2 Corinthians, HNTC, p. 7 – Pratt writes, “Although the Corinthians longed for Christ to return in glory, their spiritual gifts equipped them to live lives of faith in the meantime. As Paul wrote in Ephesians 1:14…. The Spirit supplies believers with a host of blessings as they long for Christ’s return.
Paul mentioned the return of Christ here to remind the Corinthians of the true nature of their condition. Many people in the Corinthians church thought they were more blessed with gifts than they actually were…. He also had to remind them that their gifts were only temporary, partial manifestations of the blessings they would receive at Christ’s return (1 Cor. 13:8–13). Paul probably mentioned Christ’s return to remind them that they needed to stop being satisfied with the progress they had made. They needed to appy themselves to waiting eagerly for Christ’s return.”
Prior, David, The Message of 1 Corinthians, p. 24 – “Paul is adamant that God has fully endowed the whole congregation with these gifts of knowledge and speech, and no doubt Paul is thinking of particular friends at Corinth with different gifts. On the speaking side he would have included such gifts as prophecy, teaching, preacing, evangelism, speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues, and any use of the gift of speech which contributes to the building up of the church. As far as knowledge is concerned, the church as a body has access to all the wisdom, insight, discernment, and truth which it needs, it needs no special gurus to bring it to them.”
Robertson A.T. and Alfred Plummer, A Critical and Exegetical Commentary on the First Epistle of St. Paul to the Corinthians, ICC, pp. 6–7: regarding the word “charismati” – “Cf. Rom. 1:11, where it is in context with sterichthenai, as here with bebaiothenai. Philo uses the word of divine gifts (De alleg. leg. 3. 24), and in N.T., excepting 1 Pet. 4:10, it is peculiar to Paul. It is used by him (1) of God’s gift of salvation through Christ, Rom. 5:15, 6:23; (2) of any special grace or mercy, 7:7; 2 Cor. 1:11; and (3) of special equipments or miraculous gifts, as that of healing, 7:9; cf. 12:4; Rom. 12:6. Here it is by no means to be restricted to (3), but includes (2), for the immediate context, especially v. 8, dwells on gifts flowing form a state of grace.”
Soards, Marion L. 1 Corinthians, NIBC, p. 25-26 – Paul “continues, however, in a way that qualifies God’s complete enrichment of the Corinthians by saying that they experience these gifts (lit.) ‘as [they] eagerly await the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ.’ This crucial circumscription gives a clear eschatological cast to the spiritual gifts in Corinth.”
Thiselton, Anthony, The First Epistle to the Corinthians, NIGTC, pp. 96–100 – This exegetical commentary says nothing about an implied duration of the “charismata” based on this text. Thiselton even questions whether the “gifts” in this text refer to the specific “gifts” of 1 Cor 12–14.
Thiselton, Anthony, First Corinthians: A Shorter Exegetical and Pastoral Commentary, p. 36 – Speaking of v. 7b, Thiselton notes that “this introduction prepares the way for 13:9–10. … Present discipleship may be marked by certain ambiguities, but there is always sufficient light to take the next step in faith. Thus Christians long for the curtains to be flung open wide, for the sun to stream in upon the whole of reality, and for Christ to be seen by all as he truly is.”
I certainly agree with you on your interpretation of this passage, Nathan. While a slight and unconvincing case may be made for the continuation of the charismatic gifts, there are certainly better passages to go to. I am really appreciating your thoroughness and even-handedness on this issue.
I’m pretty sure that I visited all the women’s sites that you have listed and found all but two to be very lite (and some not at all) on the teachings of God’s Word. Nothing like this site or other good sites that teach about God for others to learn of Him. They mostly talk about their lives and their children’s lives and how everything is going and what goals they have this year i.e. “do more flossing” and how to bake a cake…
Am I missing something? I realize that women are not to teach men, but are women not dedicating their lives to reading and teaching other women about God’s Word? And is this ok with you guys that you find superficial blogs/sites for women to read. Shouldn’t this be a concern? I realize that I don’t need them to teach about the Word of God because there are sites that do just that, but what I guess I’m getting at is that you are recommending these sites which have very little to do with deep issues concerning God. As if you don’t expect much from women concerning the studying of God’s Word. I was just going to comment about TulipGirl but found that all the sites were like hers except for two. Girl Talk talked about God but in a way that fit Him into their lives well… a cherry on top of their world. They don’t talk about solid doctrine. Are we forgetting that God has called each person to be accountable for their own growth by studying His Word and being in prayer. If I were a new Christian who had come to your site and found these recommended sites for women (Really, they are just for women because of their content…I mean how many men what to know how to make a cake or that some woman’s goal is to floss her teeth more!), I would come to the conclusion that all the hard studying of God’s word is for men and that I could just read over verses in the Bible and not have to do any studying. I don’t want to sound judgemental but I do find it concerning. These people have a right to blog about whatever they want to blog about and I don’t see any of them claiming that they speak on doctrinal issues…it is the fact that they are recommended by this site which is a place for doctrinal issues. Do you understand what I’m getting at? Obviously, this does not need to be posted because it has nothing to do with your post. I am only writing it here because you have not contact info. Again, I don’t mean to sound judgemental…just concerned.
Sarah, you wrote,
1) “I’m pretty sure that I visited all the women’s sites that you have listed and found all but two to be very lite (and some not at all) on the teachings of God’s Word.
2) “Is this ok with you guys that you find superficial blogs/sites for women to read?
3) “I would come to the conclusion that all the hard studying of God’s word is for men and that I could just read over verses in the Bible and not have to do any studying.”
So, are you saying that their recommended women’s site list is condescending? dismissive? insulting? sexist? demeaning? offensive? or even…
Patriarchal?
Read your comments Sarah with interest, as we’ve noticed the same concern. Although my wife Susan does not have a Blog, she has begun producing women’s study material or commentaries that are not fluff oriented but careful in a grammatical/historical interpretation. Her careful study comes from having personally memorized almost the whole New Testament, along with working in the critical commentaries instead of devotionally oriented ones. November she released her first book, “With the Master in the School of Tested Faith” which is a commentary on the Epistle of James. Phil Johnson and Martha Peace write recommendations. Susan’s burden is to awaken women to your concern and shift women’s study to substantive interpretive issues – away from the common emotive illustrations often published by women. Her website start is at http://www.withthemaster.com and she speaks throughout the country, so call her to schedule – 918-695-0832.
Nice comment Nathan.
I basically agree that this verse does not directly state that the gifts would continue but the close association with “waiting eagerly” certainly leaves the door open.
As for the gifts themselves I would point out that the Greek word for “no” is “μηδενι3367 – from mēden”. The definition in Strong’s is “not even one (man, woman, thing): – any (man, thing)…” The definition “not even one” or “any” sounds pretty inclusive to me. Young’s Literal Translation has it as “so that ye are not behind in any gift, waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,”. The “not behind” also seems to imply a comparative element. The fact that they were not behind must have been in comparison to something. It would seem strange to be comparing the gift of salvation which is the same for all.
I believe that no (or “any”) gift probably does refer to or at least include the Gifts of the Spirit from ch.12. and the close connection with “waiting eagerly” is somewhat supportive of the idea of continuation.
Yours in Christ,
Riley
Riley,
Thanks for your comment. In my first comment (above), you’ll notice that Alford, Fee, Grosheide, Kistemaker, Lenski, Oster, Robertson & Plummer, and Thiselton all recognize the possibility that Paul’s reference to gifts (in this verse) is much broader than the specific list of gifts in chapters 12-14. Others would limit the word specifically to the miraculous/charismatic phenomena of chapters 12-14. In my opinion, the more general understanding is better.
But even if it is limited to miraculous/charismatic phenomena, the verse is still not explicit regarding the duration of those gifts. Rather it expresses Paul’s desire that a church (which was not inferior in any “gift”) avoid complacency, looking forward with confidence to the return of Jesus Christ.
This letter, of course, was written at a time when all agree that both the general redemptive gifts and the special miraculous gifts were in operation. For Paul to reference such gifts, and note that the Corinthians were not inferior in any of those gifts, is to be expected. His present tense instruction is in keeping with what would be expected during the apostolic age.
What is missing here is an explicit temporal link between the specific miraculous gifts and the return of Christ. That link does not exist in this verse. It must be read in from other verses–usually 1 Cor. 13:8-10.
In the context, it seems that it was not Paul’s intention to answer the when question in this text. His purpose (it seems to me) was to demonstrate a contrast–between the Corinthians’ current state of blessing and the much greater state of blessing they would enjoy at Christ’s return. “You have been gifted in every way,” says Paul. “But don’t become complacent in your giftedness. Instead, look forward to the return of Christ, when the blessings you enjoy now will be infinitely multiplied.”
I should add that cessationists would agree that the gifts of grace (in a general, redemptive sense) continue throughout the entire church age. Moreover, most cessationists believe the non-revelatory non-miraculous gifts also continue (but that the miraculous sign gifts were limited to the apostolic era).
Anyway, these are just my initial thoughts. Thank you again for your helpful feedback.
- NB
Your approach is very fair. I have my doubts on both sides of the issue, but you do well cutting through the extremes. I’ll keep reading with great interest!
God bless,
Just thinking out loud about this passage, Nate. I wonder if it might actually mean the very opposite of what Charismatics see. In fact, I wonder if it supports the view that the “perfect” in ch. 13 is the completed canon.
What struck me was that “the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ” (v. 7) is the same wording as Rev. 1:1, which refers to specific written Revelation (which, from 22:18ff we know is closed). Further, the context of these opening verses in 1 Cor. is “knowledge,” (v. 5).
Just a thought here. I haven’t had time to research it out.
jsb,
Good thoughts.
It is true that Paul uses the term apokalupsin (“revelation”) rather than his more common parousia (“appearing”). While most of the commentators I looked at made note of this, I believe all agreed that it referred to the second coming, and not the completed canon. This seems to be confirmed in the immediate context by verse 8, which is definitely eschatological.
But you are correct in seeing the lexical connection. Apokalupsis is the very first word of the book of Revelation. So maybe a case could be made for what you are suggesting.
But even so, it would not conclusively answer the when question. Verses 7b-8 do not explicitly say that the “gift” will cease at the “revelation” of Christ (or that they will continue until that “revelation”). They merely exhort the gifted Corinthians to eagerly anticipate that “revelation,” leaving the when question unaddressed.
Thanks for your comments. It’s definitely fun to think these things through. May the Lord be honored by our efforts.
- NB
Hi Nate,
Good Response.
Actually I was thinking of revising my concluding comment but you got to it first.
I still believe the gifts of Ch.12 are at least included in the verse. It would seem mighty strange if no(“any”) gift did not include the very gifts that Paul himself listed later on in the letter.
I’d said, “…the close connection with “waiting eagerly” is somewhat supportive of the idea of continuation.”
I’d like to revise that.
Paul seems to be making a simple statement about the present condition of the Corinthians as they wait for the coming of the Lord. The statement does not require a continuation of their present condition, not does it preclude a continuation. The question remains open because Paul is not talking about continuation. Paul is simply not answering all our questions about cessation/continuation. It’s basically a toss up as far as this verse goes.
Yours in Christ,
Riley
Riley,
You wrote: Paul seems to be making a simple statement about the present condition of the Corinthians as they wait for the coming of the Lord. The statement does not require a continuation of their present condition, not does it preclude a continuation. The question remains open because Paul is not talking about continuation. Paul is simply not answering all our questions about cessation/continuation.
Exactly right! Great summary. Thanks for putting it so clearly.
- NB
Hi John,
(This is in answer to your questions on 1/16/07 – got too late to post this so I held it over till now. Sorry about the length.)
As you know I believe and am convinced that the scriptures verify that speaking in tongues is unknown both to the speaker “my understanding is unfruitful” and ” in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding”, and to the hearers, “no man understands.”
John said:
For the Charismatics here, I have a question. Since the Spirit comes and goes and gives gifts to whomever he pleases – why doesn’t he hook me up w/ some prophecy it really help me out – I’d also really like to learn Japanese. jk
Sorry, for being facetious, but you get my point.
Riley:
You don’t “learn” to speak in tongues and you don’t understand it after you speak it. It’s given to you on the spot as the Spirit gives you the utterance (Acts 2:4). If you want to learn Japanese order a course and get some books and CD’s. That’s what I’m doing with Hebrew and Greek. (pray for me on that)
As for hooking you up with some prophecy, sorry it doesn’t work that way. The Holy Spirit is like a wind that blows where he wills. You can’t dictate to the Holy Spirit when to give you a prophecy. He distributes the gifts “as he wills.” If you could order up a prophecy on demand I’d have ordered some up long ago for myself.
John said:
Why does He skip over all of us poor cessastionist folk? Seems weird that if a person’s predisposition is to not like it that the Spirit would say “Fine, than you don’t get it.” From the NT it seems like they were given regardless of meriting it so to speak. That just struck me as weird that He would be holding out on us.
Riley:
As for being skipped over, I was skipped over too. For years I was saved, and born again. I knew Jesus had come into my life and changed me. But there were no tongues, nothing outwardly and manifestly supernatural, only what Jesus had done on the inside of me.
Years later I prayed for the baptism in the Holy Spirit with someone from the 700 club. Having grown up in a mainline denominational church I had no clue about these things. In my church they didn’t teach for it or against it, I’d never even heard of it. The person I was praying with didn’t coach me or teach me what to do, just a short little prayer over the phone. After the prayer I stood there praying in English because I didn’t know what else to do. All of a suddenly it was like fire came down from heaven upon me and my prayer in English spontaneously changed into praying in tongues fluently in a language I didn’t understand. And in 25+ years since I still haven’t understood a word yet. Not everyone’s experience is the same as mine but that’s what happened to me. I’m convinced it was a legitimate experience of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. If you ask for a fish God is not going to give you a serpent, and “how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?” Luke 11:11 & 13
But this experience of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit did open up the realm of the miraculous for me. Not all at once by any means but I began to see miraculous healings and other things taking place. Jesus didn’t say anything about salvation or being born again in reference to the Baptism in the Holy Spirit and the day of Pentecost. What he did say was that you would receive POWER after that the Holy Ghost comes UPON you. That’s not the same thing as being saved. I was born again and had the presence of the Holy Spirit within me for years before this experience.
But I was willing to receive. On the day of Pentecost they were waiting for the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Paul said that Jesus appeared to “five hundred brethren at once” I Cor. 15:6. We don’t know exactly when that happened but only 120 or so were there on the day of Pentecost. Jesus said to tarry in Jerusalem and those that were there and waiting were the ones that received. They may not have known exactly what was coming but they were willing to receive it . At Cornelieus house they were gathered together, waiting and willing to receive whatever Peter brought to them. The Samaritans, Paul himself, and the Ephesian disciples all had hands specifically laid on them to receive the infilling of the Spirit.
Unfortunately many people have closed the windows of their mind to this wind of the Holy Spirit. I have observed that if the Holy Spirit is not allowed to blow as a wind where he wills then he just doesn’t blow at all. You won’t hear or see the miraculous effects of the Holy Spirit. That doesn’t mean they’re not saved, just that they’re not going to see much of the outwardly supernatural. The power doesn’t come until AFTER the Holy Ghost comes upon you-Acts 1:8. Until then you’re going to just keep on tarrying UNTIL you are endued with power from on high-Luke 24:49. Jesus specifically said this power comes through the Baptism in the Holy Spirit-Acts 1:5,8, and the Baptism in the Holy Spirit comes with speaking in tongues Acts 2:4. I know of no other way into the miraculous other than the Bible way.
I’m sorry if this puts sand in your craw and I know a lot of you aren’t going to agree with this but I can’t help that. I already know the basic perspective of this ministry. I read “The Charismatics” years ago. I didn’t believe it then and still don’t believe it now, but what better place to put my beliefs to the test? If my beliefs can’t stand up to examination maybe I need some better ones – any yours too. Do I detect a note of irritation or frustration in your questions? If we disagree lets disagree agreeably and keep loving one another in Christ. I have placed both my experiences and beliefs out here for all to see and examine. At least respect me for that.
You asked some specific questions and I have given specific answers to the best of my ability. You were being facetious some but no offence. I still love you in Christ and I hope you still love me too. I’m simply stating as best I can the things I believe and have experienced.
Yours in Christ,
Riley
Sarah,
Although I’m far from a ‘heavyweight’like this blog or some of the other teaching sites, I invite you to visit my blog. You’ll find a mixture of things. I don’t necessarily ‘teach’ but I definitely try to work out my salvation thru my blog, and am very much a student of Scripture. This has only been in the past two years when God graciously opened my eyes to His sovereignty.
I love the deep study of God’s Word. I love the difficult and weighty texts. My life has most assuredly been enriched as I’ve studied the Bible through the eyes of God’s sovereignty.
Regarding the gifts, I would ask this question: If the power that satan possesses has not ceased, why would the necessary components to combat him and storm the gates of hell have ceased? All the gifts are of God and from God, and He is free to dispense them as He sees fit, whenever He pleases.
Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances. But examine everything carefully;… 1 Thess 5:19-21
That there are abuses of the gifts, like all over the airwaves, does not negate their existence or value. It is our job to continue to seek discernment.
Riley, my husband had a similar experience to you.
Sarah, there is a clear disclaimer at the top of the Blogroll list; I’ve wondered if those may be sites of folks that have requested added or that are familiar to folks of Pulpit Magazine(personally or from posting) more than a defined list of what is recommended as ideals from the vast world of Blog Land. Not that some aren’t tops, mind you.
Hope this helps!
@ Riley,
Thanks for the insight good food for thought. Didn’t expect such a passionate answer but thanks!
I hope you know I was being sorta facetious w/ the Japanese and Prophecy thing
But right now, I’m split about the nature of gifts and if they are “on command” or not.
I think many people on both sides, wrongly parallel the Holy Spirit descending in Acts with the gift of tongues. Surely, I know you would agree, that you don’t control when where or how the Holy Spirit comes, but as you said he comes to you.
That’s the way we see it in Acts 2,10, and 19. However, the gift of tongues is different – it’s able to regulated. So, I think both sides push it with strict analogies.
I’m not fully decided on my position, but I am def. leaning towards the fact that the gift of tongues and prophecy can be “on command” to some extent and be a direct “at that moment” revelation from the Lord you are compelled to say. As I said those experiences in Acts 2, 10, and 19 are not the “2 or 3 at a time in church” sorta deal.
If someone knows a lot of this, please feel free to teach. I’ve been hearing mixed things from both sides on the issue.
-John
Riley,
I am a Reformed Charismatic and fully embrace the teaching that the gifts of the Spirit are still manifesting today. I am having trouble though accepting the idea that we can pray in tongues privately on a regular basis, I just don’t see that in the scripture at all. Not to mention the many professing Christians I’ve known in the past who prayed privately in tongues and then later on ended up being false converts who lived like devils.
I see that you believe you pray in tongues privately on a regular basis; I too used to do this (or so I thought), yet I was a false convert until recently when God gloriously and truly saved me. I’ve given an invitation on my blog site to anyone who can give me solid scriptural support for the practice of private prayer tongues. I am very interested in what you would have to say and I would greatly appreciate any information you have on this subject. I want you to know that my purpose here is not to argue or debate, I simply want to know that if the practice is biblical I want a peice of it. Like I said, my problem is I just don’t see it there, at least using proper interpretation. My site is http://www.cbeecher.blogspot.com. I hope to here from you soon.
I want to apologize for the spirit or tone in which I spoke. Instead of complaining to Pulpit, I should have seen the need for women to start diving into the Word of God and brought my burden to Him in prayer. I sincerely ask for forgiveness and am in the process of God humbling this servant of His. I do appreciate the blog sites that some offered and will check them out soon! Your sister in Christ, sarah
God bless you, Sarah.
Sarah,
Just a word of consolation……..
You do not have to apologize, for it is your responsiblity before God as it is every man and woman who truly belongs to the Lord to diligently seek the Lord and His Truth. Not only should you fervently pursue it, but it should be the earnest desire of your heart to learn the deep truths of God. Remember you have the greatest teacher inside you and all you have to do is call upon Him and He will answer you and show you great and mighty things which you know not.
I John 2:27…….”But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is Truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him”.
Hi Sarah,
My response was not intended as a correction or rebuke to you. Please forgive my ambiguity.
I was impressed by the investigative work you did, by your humble spirit, and by the validity of your observations.
Take care.
Sarah,
Thanks for your earlier comments. As the managing editor of this site, I’ll be the first to admit our blogroll isn’t perfect. It’s something that is still in transition — as we continue to add solid sites to the list, while weeding others out.
As you search for good theological blogs from a feminine perspective, you might try looking through the lists at Biblical Womanhood, Everyday Mommy (in the righthand side column), or even The League of Reformed Bloggers, of which blogs like SoloFemininity and Everyday Musings are a part.
Thanks again for your comment. I hope that helps.
- NB
Riley, be careful not to equate your experience with that of the book of Acts. That is, just because you see your experience resembling that of the book of Acts does not necessarily validate the continuance of the miraculous. Many of the things you see in Acts are truly dramatic and extraordinary because it had to do with the founding of the church.
You mention that you opened up to the miraculous 25+ years ago. That is certainly good, but you can be open to miraculous things without having to endorse a specific gift. For example, God heals, but it does not have to be through someone having the “gift” of healing.
Actually the reverse of your experience can happen. My wife and sister-in-law both used to speak in tongues and prophesy with great (and sometimes quite incredible) accuracy. Yet ever since we studied the cessationist biblical position they quit doing it without anybody forcing them to quit! Never again did they speak in tongues or prophesy and have maintained and increased their christian vitality, love for the Lord and the Scriptures.
Sarah, you are right–my blog has been pretty light lately. I go through cycles, and right now, real life thinking and living is taking my energy and sharing deep and theological thoughts on a blog–very much on the back burner.
That said, I think you will be encouraged to grow, study, and meditate by the writings of these women.
http://everydaymusings.blogspot.com/
http://whilinawaythehours.blogspot.com/
http://theupwardcall.blogspot.com/
http://hiraeth.squarespace.com/
And the part of my blog that ISN’T about flossing more (yes, something I’m working on *wink*) is Theology for Girls:
http://www.tulipgirl.com/mt/archives/cat_theology_for_girls.html