Are you saying that the Nicene Creed is inspired Scripture? Are you equating the “fathers” with the inpired writings of the writers, writing apostles and writing prophets of the Old and New Testaments?

The Roman church would acknowledge the creeds; however, with the veneration of Mary, the magic of the relics, and what is largely a disregard of Scripture they have largely missed the boat.

I live in a town that is mostly Roman Catholic (Green Bay, Wisconsin) and the saying goes here, “we (Catholics) don’t read the Bible.” Yes, they can recite the Apostle’s Creed, the Rosary, and say “Hail Mary” but most do not know, or have not heard, the way of salvation. They are trusting in ritual, penance, and their connection to the church (technically only the clergy are in the Roman church) for their salvation. They are told, much like the mantras of the emergent movement, that the Bible is not understandable and most people cannot understand it.

We need to reminds ourselves that Satan ‘believes’ and ‘understands’ the creeds and the Bible (he quoted and twisted it during the 40 days and nights he spent with Christ in the wilderness). However, Satan does not have saving faith. Saving faith and the deity of Christ are indeed fundamental doctrines.

The creeds are valuable and they might even be a starting point for some. However, they do not replace the study of Scripture, the grappling with the sacred writ that is necessary to understand God (i.e. theo-logy/doctrine is the study of God and His principles). Understanding the critical fundamental doctrines is fundamental to being a Christian.

When one blurs, ignores, or plays down understanding the Scriptures and the doctrines that are fundamental to the faith, one makes room for the cultist like the Jehovah Witnesses who do not believe in the deity of Christ and who cling to salvation by works (or the Mormons who, at the end of the day, have more gods as the Hindus.

In His Grace,

Keith Crosby
Green Bay

The Nicene Creed well expresses the absolute minimum fundamentals of our faith. Everything in the Creed is supported clearly by scripture. How wonderful that, in less than a minute, a Christian can recite clearly the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith. The early Church fathers were surely led by the Holy Spirit.

http://www.ccel.org/creeds/nicene.creed.html

Lou and Lordship (Part 1)

Lou and Lordship (Part 2)

Lou and Lordship (Part 3)

Lou and Lordship (Part 4)

Lou and Lordship (Part 5)

A Few More Thoughts on Lordship (Part 1)

A Few More Thoughts on Lordship (Part 2)

In all seriousness I believe my contribution under this particular article is meaningful.

It is so because Dr. MacArthur introduced “saving faith,” and the Romans 10:9 passage. These are two of the hallmark defining issues in his lordship interpretation of the gospel.

Dr. MacArthur has, in a very subtle way, identified his interpretation of the gospel, commonly known as Lordship Salvation (LS), as one of the fundamentals.

He brought LS into the arena, and I am simply addressing it.

Yours faithfully,

LM

I’m sorry, but I had a hearty, well-meaning laugh.

Go to the Categories section and click on “Lordship.” You might find that I didn’t miss much, and it well beyond September.

Kind regards,

LM

PS: I have been reading the articles here virtually every day.

With all due respect, you missed the Lordship debate already. It was covered in some detail and ended in September.

You may wish to go back to last week’s “kick-off” of “what doctrines are fundamental” for context and even to the emergent discussions before that so that you can contribute more meaningfully. Hope this helps you stay current but you missed that boat as it ended in September.

Grace to You,

Keith Crosby
Green Bay, Wisconsin

In this article John MacArthur identifies his Lordship Salvation interpretation of the gospel as a fundamental of the faith.

If I were to take the time there is much that I could discuss about this article. I am, however, going to limit myself to just one subject from the article. That subject is Dr. MacArthur’s reference to “saving faith” as a fundamental.

(I may come back and post more here. Later I am going to post this and a more thorough treatment of the article at my blog site)

In Roman numeral III above he identifies “saving faith” as a fundamental. It is important that we be reminded how Dr. MacArthur defines “saving faith.” We will look more closely at this in a moment.

For just a moment I want to refer to this quote in the article above, “Romans 10:9 confirms that the resurrection is a fundamental doctrine, and adds another: the lordship of Christ. ‘If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.’”

The deity and resurrection of Christ are indeed fundamentals. Jesus is the Messiah. The Sonship of Jesus is a fundamental, but ironically Dr. MacArthur once erred gravely on the eternal Sonship of Christ, but later acknowledged his error. In this quote on Romans 10:9 Dr. MacArthur identifies “the lordship of Christ” as “a fundamental doctrine.”

Romans 10:9 is speaking of salvation, therefore, when Dr. MacArthur speaks of the lordship of Christ from the verse he is speaking of what he believes a man’s response must be to the lordship of Christ in order to be born again.

This is important because Lordship’s “saving faith” has primarily to do with what they believe must be man’s response to the lordship of Christ to result in salvation.

Just before I quote Dr. MacArthur’s definition of “saving faith” we need to be reminded that in the article above, and in the quotes to follow, he is speaking of the reception of eternal life, not the results of a genuine conversion.

In defining “saving faith,” Dr. MacArthur has written,

“The gospel Jesus proclaimed was a call to discipleship, a call to follow Him in submissive obedience. . . . Forsaking oneself for Christ’s sake is not an optional step of discipleship subsequent to conversion; it is the sine qua non of saving faith.” (The Gospel According to Jesus: [Revised & Expanded Edition], pp. 27, 142.)

The indispensable condition of “saving faith,” according to Dr. MacArthur, is following Christ, “submissive obedience” and “forsaking oneself.”

Following is John MacArthur’s definition of saving faith from the original edition of The Gospel According to Jesus: “Saving faith is a commitment to leave sin and follow Jesus at all costs. Jesus takes no one unwilling to come on those terms.” (p. 87.)

From the Revised & Expanded Edition, John MacArthur reworked the above statement as follows, “Saving faith does not recoil from the demand to forsake sin and follow Jesus Christ at all costs. Those who find his terms unacceptable cannot come at all.” (p. 95.)

Again from his original edition, MacArthur writes,
“Thus in a sense we pay the ultimate price for salvation when our sinful self is nailed to a cross. . . . It is an exchange of all that we are for all that Christ is. And it denotes implicit obedience, full surrender to the lordship of Christ. Nothing less can qualify as saving faith.” (p. 140.)

To reiterate, Dr. MacArthur is defining the terms or conditions for the reception of eternal life. When he speaks of “saving faith” he is defining what he believes is required for the reception of eternal life. He believes salvation is conditioned upon “wholehearted commitment, unconditional surrender, a commitment to leave sin.

Dr. MacArthur states salvation (the gift of eternal life) is based on, “A full exchange of self for the Savior.” These are the terms he uses to define the Lordship interpretation of “saving faith.”

Lordship Salvation requires much more than a faith that is depending on Jesus Christ to save from sin, death and Hell. The Lordship position does not depend solely on the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

Lordship Salvation, according to John MacArthur requires an “exchange” of what man must offer Christ by way of commitments to obedience, surrender, and following, to receive His free gift of salvation.

To define “saving faith” as though receiving the free gift of God requires a lost man to make upfront commitments in “exchange” for salvation is a departure from the fundamentals of our faith!

LM

www.indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com