Is It Wrong for Wives to Work?
December 26th, 2006
(By John MacArthur)
In light of the Christmas holidays, we will be taking a short break from the emerging church this week — running several miscellaneous articles instead.
The issue of wives working is one that she and her husband must come to understand from a biblical perspective, then allow the Holy Spirit to lead in their specific situation.
Titus 2:4-5 teaches women to be sober minded (i.e., to know their priorities). What are the priorities a married woman should pursue? Her first must be to meet the needs of her family. Verse 4 says wives are to love their husbands and children.
To be “husband‑lovers” and “children‑lovers” (as the Greek literally reads), verse 5 says women should be “workers at home.” That phrase is one word in the Greek (oikourgos) and means “home workers” or “workers in the home.” First Timothy 5:14 emphasizes the same point by saying wives are to “guide the house.” This phrase in the Greek (oikodespoteo) means “to keep house.” A wife’s first priority, then, is to care for her home. She shows her love for her husband and children by making the home a haven of peace and rest for family, friends, and strangers.
A wife’s second priority is found in 1 Timothy 2:15, which teaches that she will find great usefulness in childbearing. The Greek word for childbearing (teknogonia) means not only to give birth to children but also encompasses the idea of rearing them. That verse also teaches that instilling values in children is part of a mother’s role. Deuteronomy 6:6‑7, Proverbs 1:8 and 6:20 tell us that children should be taught the principles of Scripture (beginning with the truth of the gospel). Mothers play a crucial part in that process.
A woman’s third priority is found in the description of the industrious woman found in Proverbs 31:10‑21. Verse 21 says she is involved in ministering to the needs of the poor and underprivileged. As a believer, a Christian wife has the privilege and responsibility of serving others. A primary area in which this works itself out is the church, as she employs her giftedness within the body of Christ.
A wife who fulfills those three priorities will probably be a very busy individual. If she still has time left over, she then would be free to pursue enterprising and creative activities outside the home. Of course, the women who are most free to do that are single women and married women with no children. But even those women should be sure they are fulfilling their responsibilities at home before they leave it for the work place.
For a longer, more extensive version of this article, please click here.
Interesting thoughts!
But how do you know it is in this prioritization?
And as her first duty is to care for the home, rare children and care for the poor, is this in opposition to what her husband has to do? Or is it expected of him the same things, it just isn´t written?
Shocked that Pastor MacArthur would brave in such a short Blog, the challenge of “Is it Wrong for Wives to Work?” Especially with so many in his congregation who live in hurried Southern California. I commend the attempt. So it is with caution that I would add the 4th Priority of a Married Woman, i.e., being mentored by the older women and mentoring the younger women (Titus 2:3-5). That seems to be an ongoing central apsect of her ministry responsibility, along with the other three.
Ironically, an article was just read yesterday about 2 income homes that raised points not previously considered though we’ve made the choice for only one job outside the home with our family for many years(married 29 years and only worked a short time when first married) even when times were very tough(stints of no job, low income job, more than one job at a time, relocating to another state for work).
http://frugalliving.about.com/od/livingononeincome/a/no2income090306.htm (If it isn’t okay to share the link, it isn’t a problem if the reply is deleted.)
My parents weren’t wealthy in dollars in the bank, my mother sewed clothing and for the home(and sometimes friends bartered with her to do so for them), canned, answered the phone for my dad’s 24/7 on-call job, and never is a day remembered growing up where she wasn’t home or a neighbor met me at the bus(and yes, even into high school years where I NEVER had a key to the home unlike latchkey children in elementary school today). There are memories of smelling homemade bread from the main road, climbing into bed made with line-dryed linens on Monday washday, visiting an elderly neighbor with homemade rice pudding in hand, a home in order, lending a helping hand where we fellowshipped with other believers. My mother never learned to drive a car though one was available to her(dad had a work vehicle) but she could do repairs and landscape and decorate a home quite nicely; we were rich in things money can’t buy! The home wasn’t her job…it was her high-calling profession just as it was beginning with Eve and so many other women through to my mother’s day. She and my dad both remembered the Great Depression where they knew their moms staying at home even if many a meal meant potatoes and buttermilk in exchange for work the father did for a farmer. There were very few families known of divorce while growing up…actually can’t think of one specifically at the moment. My oldest son knows many his age that are products of divorce and remarriage, instability and insecurity.
Some circumstances are understandable that would have the wife working but it should be the exception rather than almost the rule we so readily see these days. Like inferred in the article, little time would be left to be under the authority of someone other than the husband or father as God intends…with a focus on fulfilling God’s priorities. There is certainly room for following the Proverbs 31 woman to have a cottage industry(many young single and married-for-many-years ladies do just that by selling their own sewing pattern designs or recycled commercial patterns online, for one example).
The Church fails women…families… so often today, doesn’t it? Sadly, many do not support them Biblically in times of need. The older women aren’t always mentoring the younger to be keepers “at” home either because they aren’t fulfilling their designed role. It’s a downward spiral we’ve seen, especially in the past 30 years though some women with young families are being different to make a difference.
I’m surprised this article wasn’t as defined as John has earlier taught. http://www.biblebb.com/files/mac/wiferole.htm
Doug,
I, too,am shocked with so bold a stroke (shocked, encouraged, and convicted). Too often because there are people in our own congregations in the two income trap we tread softly on this issue.
My wife and I prior to seminary and children were both “successfull (whatever that means)” business executives. However, as believers who were raised by stay at home moms (who by the way weren’t believers) we understood the importance of having mom in the home. I agree with your addition to the list. I, at this point, have nothing to add other than the idea of “motive.”
What is the motive for mom’s career/job? Too often in family counseling I found troubled youths whose parents are out pursuing their respective careers to “provide their kids with what they didn’t have…” In the hunt for terrific I-pods, just the right clothes, late model vehicles, 260 some odd channels on their cable/satellite, and broadband internet, the parents failed to provide the one needful thing… to prepare their children for eternity.
Many times mom is seeking self-fulfillment heeding the “hath God said” mentality of our culture while being aided and abetted by Dad, who falls into the Adam trap (and he took and he ate)….
I can see certain situations brought on by financial crisis, health issues, etc. where mom has to work… I can even see empty nest scenarios, or even pre-children scenarios (getting the couple out of debt).
However, motive matters and all too often I see situations where it’s about a “nice lifestyle” or perceived (versus real)needs and therein lies the challenge for a professing Christian.
All too often the stated motive seems “acceptable” but the heart motive is driven by an idol of the heart.
How many cars, vacations, and toys does a family really need? Once our aspirations display God’s principles found only in His word, we’ve slipped into idolatry and we all too often find “reasonable sounding excuses” to justify our sinful desires…
I am reminded that the Proverbs 31 woman “purchased a field” but her priorities were her husband and children… she feared God. All too often folks today fear discomfort or a loss of status and pursue the things of this world that money can buy…
I am grateful for Dr. MacArthur’s timely post prior to “New Years” to remind us of where our priorities ought to be…
Keith Crosby
Green Bay Wisconsin
Dear Dr. MacArthur, I have been thinking about this question all morning…I am 45 still a stay at home mom. I have a lot to say about where I am at at this point in my life, but that is not what I want to talk about. I think you’ve given us a trick question. I believe the answer even on your part is no, if your priorities are in line biblically. I also believe this because you have many women on staff as faculty of the Master’s College.
http://www.masters.edu/academics/profiles.asp?depname=0
As a matter of fact, I was even wondering if I needed permission to even comment on this blog.
Pastors, may I ask what the answer is? Good preaching that lets the chips fall where they may to cleanse the “temple” even if it means restructuring of attendance and donations(because some folks will surely be offended and leave or cause trouble for leaders)? Sadly, do you see that there are more websites, blogs, and books of personal study devoted to women being for Godly feminity and womanhood and against feminism from a Biblical perspective than it seems there are pastors that dare preach the whole Word? So often those are the efforts of younger women in the midst of being wives, mothers, and caregivers to aging parents willing to share with younger and older women rather than the other way around. Even though there is familiarity with our family with a fellowship that does have verse-by-verse teaching, the books taught often tiptoed around topics such as this(is the thought to the lean of “why offend those career husbands and wives that give the most money while the one income families give more of themselves and their time?”.).
Many families find fellowship not a priority time of teaching the men how to shepherd their families but rather a time to divide the family into perspective age groupings(sometimes in varied buildings), run programs to take the place of teaching in the home, and head counts. Is there a sense that many folks that hop from place to place really do want to get back to the basics and be what God would have them be? They often are misjudged and further discouraged.
It is believed that many gentlemen and pastors that post here are convicted and courageous like Paul, so no offense meant in what is generally shared by ladies that have crossed my path.
This is one of those hard topics, not theologically, but practically – esp. as a man in the Medical Field. I know many sisters in Christ and sadly I’m kind of thankful this topic has never come up!
As you may know, to be a doctor you must work constantly and there is almost no way to have your family come first – like the Biblical model that is.
Just wanted to commend the brothers and more so the sisters here that are living their life according to God’s will.
John,
With all due respect, I think your exegesis is wrong.
1. Titus 2.4-5 is a list of moral characteristics. Women should love their husbands and children, as opposed to not loving them; they are to be self-controlled, as opposed to giving in to their desires; they are to be pure, as opposed to being defiled; they are to be kind and submissive to their husbands, as opposed to being vicious and undermining. So when, in the midst of this we have the “working at home”. This is not to be interpreted as being opposed to working outside of home, but being lazy at home. Paul is teaching that women who are at home should work there and not be lazy – he is not teaching that women should only work at home and not have an outside vocation.
2. 1 Timothy 5.14 is in the wider context of the church’s care for widows. Paul speaks about “younger widows” here, not women or wives. He is instructing them, again, to not be lazy and not be busybodies. Rather than having the church support young womens, Paul instructs them to marry and be supported that way.
3. Proverbs 31 shows in many areas that women can earn money. 31.16 shows her planting a vineyard; 31.18 mentions that her “merchandise is profitable”; 31.24 mentions that she makes linen garments and sells them to the marketplace. All of these verses show a woman who is essentially running a business. If your restrictive belief in women as being kept in the household is true, then these verses in Proverbs 31 would have to be ignored.
I think there has been some terrible exegesis in making this point from the whole Proverbs 31 passage.
Especially when we consider this verse.
Pro 31:16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
Pro 31:17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.
Pro 31:18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.
Here we can see that she is a business woman, one who is involved in buying and selling. Culturally today most of us do not grow our own veges and raise our own animals for food and trade. Therefore it is culturally acceptable for the woman to be a working woman or a business woman as long as it enables her to care for her household and nopt neglect it.
Just curious. What did Proverbs 31 really say?
Let’s see. Verses 2-9: the admonition of wisdom to a minister of God (the man who is the head, but not just of the family, but also in community).
Then verse 10-22: the duties of a wife, a good one who can find? She is the substance provider for the ministry, which includes her family, neighbors, friends and the local congregation. Now, that’s a message that you will not hear from the Pulpit, because it is the whole Word of God. And because, it does not fit the poppycock portrayal of the modern era’s evangelical wife!
Verses 23-24: Why does the woman need to provide for her husband. First it is so that he might be known in the city gates. Of course if he works all day and on weekends to provide for his household, the only people that will know him is his boss and his co-workers, but hey, isn’t that “in situ friendship evangelism?” Oh yeah, he sits among the elders. But the again, who wants men to rule the church, preach the gospel, evangelize, study…? If you keep them tired with domestic responsibilities and laddle their “body of Christ” reponsibilities on the Pastor and paid staff and spare time deaconry then you do not have to worry that the Lord might called them to a many years long evangel where you might never see them again, or to street corner preaching or maybe something that is just too embarassing to mention, like baptisms in public. For shame!
Woops back to woman’s work. Verses 24-29: the priestess of the household. Now, we have made fathers responsible as the high priest of the household, but it is the woman who is charge with bring up the children in the training and admonition of the Lord. Is that not what is meant when it says that she will be saved in child rearing as John so adroitly states but has not clue to its full meaning. It is the man’s duty to be in training for the ministry, if he has the freedom and time to attend to the elder’s training. But heck, who would think that a man need’s to be being trained before he is called into the ministry? Then again, who wants their husbands gone all hours of the day studying and praying and ministering in the word and through service to the aged, the poor, widows and orphans. Why should they have all the fun and praise their wives in the city gates for having help make them the men that they are, men called to minister before the Lord.
Makes you wonder about Christ. Let’s see, who was it that supported him out of their earnings. Oh yeah, his mom and a few other women. Oh, that’s right, the apostles took their wives along at times for support, and not just emotional.
It is funny is it not that we have taken the world’s model of men providing for their families and made it the standard for the church when there is no such standard. It is true that men should work and provide. But, it is not just wage earning labor that is meant by that, is it? How about men earnestly seeking to advance the gospel, laboring to that end, so that they are the first, and deservingly so, to share in labors of others in another field?
I do not make it a rule that only women should work at supplying the needs of the household, anymore than I make it a rule that men should. To try and make it hard and fast betrays ignorance of what the Scripture really has to say. Today we have a unique situation where women because of political correctness often earn more than men while doing the same job. It is not uncommon to have women who are the more lucretive earner between couples. It might be far wiser to have the husband stay at home and labor, under such circumstances.
To this end: It is situational, how and a man and a woman decide to manage their household. There is only one decisive rule for both men and women, which is also found in Proverbs 31.30-31 and at the end of Ecclesiastes, Chapter 12.13-14. The latter states: “The conclusion, when all has been heard, is fear God and keep his commandments, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil”. If you will do this then you will direct you heart toward the completing of the work of Christ. His model was for men to be about his Father’s business in the Church pursuing ministry. It was also his model that women should seek to further that ministry with their whole heart with reverance (phobos) directed toward their husbands.
This is one of those topics that will hit a tender spot with just about everyone. I appreciate the post, and the comments so far.
After much discussion, prayer and study, my husband and I were led to the conviction that my role could not be fulfilled in any other way, than by my being at home. Granted, we have small children still, so that also makes a big difference. Although, even if we didn’t have young children who are also being homeschooled, I’m not so sure I’d even want to work outside the home anyway. There is so much to do here, that I don’t know that I’d want my home to suffer for the time I’d be spending elsewhere. I very much like what Pastor John had to say here:
“A wife who fulfills those three priorities will probably be a very busy individual. If she still has time left over, she then would be free to pursue enterprising and creative activities outside the home.”
This is very accurate, as persuing the priorities Pastor John mentions does consume a great amount of time on any given day. I may have free time to blog or read others blogs, or even free time to persue other personal interests, but that time is very short, and sporadic throughout the day. It’s not nearly enough time that would afford me to even a keep a job outside the home, if I had one.
All that to simply say thank you for addressing this. Many will have ruffled feathers over it, but many others will appreciate the support.
SDG,
Carla
@ Thomas:
I do agree that there should be no “hard and fast” rule for work, b/c I know many occassions where the mom is working soley to provide for her family – mine included. But I think the real question is putting $ and a lucrative career over family; not really working in of itself.
1) As for your comments on Prov. 31 – This guy is an elder at the city gates, he’s not man feeding off his wife’s work. You make it sound as if he is not making most of the money. Besides my pastor once told me to look at her as a super woman who is doing it all even able to work a little on the side, without losing time w/ her family and still making them first.
I don’t think she is trying to advance the career ladder with her wool and flax, which is Dr. MacArthur’s main concern.
2) If you really think about it, what Dr. MacArthur is saying about the family is not what the culture says… and not even close in my estimation. I wonder how you would explain Titus 2 where the focus is most definitely for the women to be in the home.
3) I think you directly go against Scripture however when you say that the father should set the example for the kids by staying home and having the mom go to her more lucrative career. This is clearly and most blatant violation of Titus 2 and the thing the Bible highly advises against.
I’ve always thought that the Proverbs 31 Woman is one who not only keeps house and rears the children, but is also one who contributes to the household income, and then wisely uses that money to purchase a field, plant a vineyard, and several other things as written in verses 13-19. Oh, and verse 24 where she sells garments she makes. And so many other things she does.
I’ve been a WAHM for almost 13 years so I could be home for our daughters, whilst contributing to the household income, and maintaining my skills developed in the workforce beforehand.
This article is actually a shortened version of a longer article found on the Grace to You website. That longer article can be read here. (I’ll add this link to the main post with an “editor’s note.”)
There is a quote from the longer article that might help clarify some of the confusion reflected in the above comments:
John is not saying that it is necessarily wrong for a wife to work outside the home. His point, instead, is that if a wife does work outside the home, she should be careful not to neglect her God-given priorities.
I find it interesting Nate that John says she can do the work outside the home if she fulfills the 3 points he makes, though most likely would not have the time.
While I agree with those points, nowadays a lot of helping the poor is done through donation to charity. And many women are able to do so through the income they make. Also there is the issue of domestic help, and a mother / wife can be a great housekeeper by employing domestic help with the household if she has been given the capability and gifts to be able to earn a income to be able to do so, and in doing so help others with employment.
Its rather unfortuante that the shorter article doesn’t make Johns point as clear as the longer one you linked to does.
Blessings craig b
Maybe it would be helpful to consider that when a woman works for an authority figure outside the home, she puts forth her firstfruit in appearance, time, energy, etc. there(and it very often is not even for a brother or sister in Christ with her highest regard in their mind). Those employed in the workplace will have to admit that they give of themselves for others mightily(ask the gentlemen…my husband as the stronger sex is exhausted when he comes home and couldn’t begin to take on my responsibilities). They aren’t capable of giving the firstfruit of their being after they’ve expended “off the top” elsewhere. They are simply using what is left which isn’t reflective of the home “really” being the priority(been there and done that so speaking from experience of being exhausted for someone and trying to play catchup and surface fixing when home…and the ventures involved nice settings in insurance and banking for income AND organizations of faith for volunteer that consumed more and more of me because of a lack of helpers), is it?
Doesn’t the Bible address the subject of financial provider in saying that the “man” would be worse than an infidel if not fulfilling his role with his family, especially of his own house(1 Timothy 5)? Even when a woman is a widow…with children OR nephews and parents to care for, she is to show piety FIRST AT home. For a woman to work outside the home and pay for others to act on her behalf with the work concerning the husband and children and extended family, the home and house(notice there is a difference), and even ministering to others isn’t wise and good stewardship, is it?
The Titus 2 woman and the Proverbs 31 woman are working, with the home/house as the base, and even have the ability to supplement the financial wellbeing of the household from that perspective. Her accolades come from her family and onlookers in the community…not from a place of employment outside the home. Managing a home for my Heavenly Beloved/Lord and earthly beloved/lord is very consuming when it comes to preparing healthy meals from scratch, being a frugal steward with resources, cleaning, doing laundry, doing handwork, being a Mary in the Word, being in charge of the decor and repairs, etc. For those women that “need” to work outside the household and then do what women that are keepers AT home do, too…well, may God help them and those in their charge. They have a tremendous full plate and will eventually have to shortchange and sacrifice something or someone in order to not implode under the label of superwoman and find themselves and those they love residing at Dysfunction Junction.
I am amazed that my personal and private reading of scripture prior to even hearing this from any pastor led me to the same conclusion. However, this is something my own wife is terrified by. See, she was raised by her parents and taught that she could do whatever she wanted, her dreams and goals were important, and that the purpose of life ( at least the implied purpose, if not stated) was the “feeling” one gets of achieving your goals and dreams.
My wife and I both are growing in the Lord, so while I pick on her, just know I am struggling to be the Husband and Priest God has called me to be. However, just because it is a struggle does not mean we give up or resist this.
My wife certainly has difficulty in this, and partially becuase in every evangelical church a “Stay At Home Mom” is frowned upon by other women, never discussed from the pulpit, and is absent in most literature.
The point is not keeping a wife at home, or as a domestic servant. The point is that God has formed man and women as male and female, and both have distinct roles. The point is if we claim to believe the Bible, then we must submit our lives to it, even when it shatters what we want, what we think is correct. Are we submitting to the Word when we react angrily to verses that have us serve our husbands and homes “as unto the Lord”?
Pray tell, even if the husbands exegesis of scripture could be wrong in regards to women staying home and managing the household affairs, would not her gentle submission be a testimony to the submission she gives to the Lord Himself and His Word?
For Example:
Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives– when they see your respectful and pure conduct. Do not let your adorning be external–the braiding of hair, the wearing of gold, or the putting on of clothing– but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious. For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are her children, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening. -1 Peter 3:1-6 ESV
The submission to the husband, like the Husbands required submission to the Lord, and similarly ( though no less controversial) is the slaves submission to their masters, is intended to demonstrate the work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the individual, giving a testimony of Christ Jesus. This is similar to the Christian submitting to Government, in Romans 13.
I think the scripture has always been clear about both the roles of Christian men and women, and our submission to the Lord himself. Let us not be captive to our culture, but let us give the culture a testimony of how we revere Christ and His authoritative Word.
P.S. When I married almost 5 years ago, as a new christian, I abdicated my proper Biblical role of bieng a biblical husband. I neglected prayer with my wife, I never stood ground nor did I attempt to guide my family into a Biblical path. There was much pain in our marriage until I repented and prayed repeatedly to God to help me fulfill my role -of which the Lord is still molding me and maturing me into.
Grace to you and Peace, Steven
Steven, maybe there would be an article of interest that you and your wife could examine in light of God’s Word on the website, Ladies Against Feminism(ladiesagainstfeminism.com)? The wisdom you shared blessed my heart; it’s very okay to be in the minority when it comes to God’s will for individuals and the family. Many local churches are in the state of disarray that they are because of the majority and compromise.
I can tell that this article really hit a nerve. Every time I have preached on this topic, I get the same response. Let me stir the pot some more.
I would ask all (husbands and wives) who resist the Bible’s teaching on a woman’s primary domestic role to consider the potentially damaging effects upon small children when a wife works outside the home. Is it proper for a couple to put their small children into daycare in order to have a dual income? Will a daycare provider love that child as a mother would? Will the day care center staff comfort your child when they need it, encourage them when they need it, or properly correct them when they need it? I doubt it!
If a couple has children, don’t they necessarily assume the role of rearing those children themselves? By what right do they pay someone else to do it? If a couple is not willing to raise their own children, perhaps they shouldn’t have them. It breaks my heart to see friends and family placing a toddler or infant in daycare in order to pursue a career outside the home.
My wife and I decided before we had children that she would stay home with them and it has paid off in a big way. We gladly traded the financial advantages for the rewards of children well-trained by us (especially my wife) in biblical values. My grown children are a blessing to us today. My wife now works and does so with a clear conscience.
I think husbands bear primary responsibility to encourage their wives to stay home and raise the children. In my ministry, most working mothers I speak to say they work because they need to earn enough money to pay for all of the toys and extras their husbands want! Most mothers would love to stay home and they would gladly give up the extra money to do so.
Men, the Bible does not give us permission to neglect our leadership role in the family in order to climb the ladder of success. If your job is demanding too much of your time, get another one, even if it pays less.
Blessings to you all.
There should not be an environment in any church in which “stay at home mums” should feel looked down upon. Conversely, there should not be an environment in any church in which women working or committed to a career should be looked down upon.
It is often said amongst evangelicals that being a wife and mother is the greatest calling a woman can have. Does anyone have any clear scriptural references for this assertion?
[...] That’s part of the question examined here by John MacArthur. [...]
Thank You for a thought-provoking post and several well-considered responses!
The stay-at-home-mom as an ideal concept, resonates with me, mainly due to my own growing-up in a family where both of my parents worked out of a business at home. Besides someone being there every day when I came home from school, they required that I contribute thru manual labor at home: finishing construction on our house, light housework, etc.
In raising my own kids, I have participated, in time and energy about as much as my wife. However, if it was not for my wife’s ability to make as good or better living outside the home as me, the family would not have survived some tough times. Now despite both having full-time work challenges outside the home, we both pitch-in with housework and actively raise our kids together. I believe our example is a good one that we are passing along to our two boys. I enjoyed the times I was the stay-at-home dad; I cannot see how OUR kids would have done as well if my wife had stayed at home for most of their growing-up.
Is not the environment we live in today profoundly different from the First Century AD? It appears that as recently as the year 1900, the most prevalent occupation was “Farming”; the SECOND most prevalent was “Domestic Servant”. I cannot help reading Paul’s Epistles, without thinking that their content was in large measure informed by the priorities of the situations he and his congregations found themselves in, during the First Century. We are not living in the First Century.
Both of us working daily in this modern world have not hurt our kids. We were able to afford a modest house in an inner-city school district, yet big enough to allow for care of a sick grandparent. We would still be living in an apartment if only one of us had worked. With Grandmother now passed away, there is enough room for the neighborhood kids to continue spending time with our boys, when they are home from college. Despite scholarships and good grades, the cost of our kids education is a serious issue.
So how do modern men and women wrestle with their responsibilities in a vastly different world? The question was raised to me most recently through reading “The Death of Christian Culture” by the late John Senior. We prepare ourselves and our children for our roles in this world through the practice of our faith and our study of the great works, including the Classics from among others, the Greco-Roman tradition. This inevitably means outright rejection of much of “modern values”.
Paul must have been horrified by some of the practices of the First-Century inheritors of this Greco-Roman tradition. His congregations were often situated in the midst of hostile populations that saw Christian practices as dangerous. That may have influenced the way in which Paul address the role of women. Is it still appropriate today?
Warm regards,
1 Timothy 5:14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
Consider Eve being Adam’s help in keeping the garden and dressing it(their home) and mother as the role God spoke of in the beginning(note that in Genesis 4 as male descendants are mentioned it is shared that they till the ground, keep sheep, dwell in tents, have cattle, handle harp and organ, instruct in brass and iron but women aren’t mentioned in a similar way…a high accolade when anything could have been mentioned there but God didn’t expand or confuse their high call). Proverbs 31, Titus 2, Ruth…there are many references to women with the home or being quiet and sober and under the authority of the husband and father. Titus 2 speaks of women and their role and the Word of God not being blasphemed. Consider that the “strange woman/harlot” dresses differently and has a boldness to be other than in the home and under submission of a protector/provider.
Not sure there is one verse but that it is a theme interwoven through the entire book(consider the Body of Christ being submissive to one Master as bride and then wife…consider the Jewish wedding custom where the female is under the father’s authority and the son is under his father’s authority as to even when he takes his bride to the addition built on the father’s house). Overall, women are cared for and not thrown to the wolves of the world and a authority head other than the Lord and their lord(father or husband or other family member/kinsman redeemer), so to speak, because the home is their priority.
Does the Bible say a woman can under no circumstances work outside the home? I don’t know of that reference but I do know that while all things may be lawful that aren’t specifically named as forbidden, all things aren’t expedient and God glorifying(yet sometimes women MUST work when the family and church fails them). I do see a specific role for younger and aged women in Titus that revolves around being home and teaching by example about being home, though. That’s how these and my lord’s eyes see it from studying to show ourselves approved unto God. If a pastor can elaborate differently, we’re open to the Lord’s leading.
Oh…neglected to add that the virtuous woman of Proverbs 31 isn’t seen in the community workforce but rather described as being at home and a help to her husband, family, and others partly because of the pleasures of her hands…which elevates him in the community with those of authority/elders.
This debate is interesting and it is obvious that there is a lot of pain on all sides. I would like to add a few comments.
- Firstly, I want absolutely to agree with comments which decry gross materialism and the neglect of children. There is no excuse for this.
- I also want to comment that the above commentary seem to assume a particular model of marriage which may not match the reality many people live in. There seems to be an assumption of male leadership, wisdom and Godliness, that a woman can submit to and be well off. Even though I love my husband and think him a wonderful Christian man, I have to say that if I waited for him to exercise leadership I would never do anything! It is a reflection of our different personalities and gifts that it is usually me who initiates prayer, bible study, theological discussion or even discussions about every day decisions we need to make. In that context, much of the thinking about these topics becomes less directly applicable to my life and marriage.
- It seems to me also that one concept neglected here is the possiblity of God’s calling women to various tasks other than charitable works. It is my experience that God calls women to the ministry of the Word, of prayer and of sacrament, as well as to whatever else pleases God. Those who live on Church property can even carry out this work while “at home.” This reality should also not be left out of our calculations.
I’m amazed at how split the comments are on this Christian web site. I would have thought there might have been maybe one in disagreement here.
According to John Stossel’s book Myths, Lies & Downright Stupidity, Myth No. 8 – American Families need Two Income read the link http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=124324&page=3
“Most families don’t have to have both parents working they do this by choice”. We send the wife to work for more stuff we don’t need!
Doesn’t the bible in 1 Timothy 6:8 say “And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content”.
I believe Titus 2:5 is pretty clear about the home making part. I’ve been bless, my wife has been able to stay at home for fifteen years now. It hasn’t been easy there are a lot of sacrifices and we are an example that it can be done on a modest income.
As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD
John,
It is obvious, this subject is an inflamatory one.
Let me first comment on some of what I have seen in this thread.
There is firstly a great diversity of opinion and it seems to break mostly along the lines of legalistic interpretation of the word, or poor interpretation. One comment caught my eye and it was the historical relevance of the passages that are mentioned. There was certainly a different culture in the first century. And today we have nothing that is familiar with even 50 years ago. One hundred years ago our country was 80-90 percent agronomist. Both parents worked in the home. At the same time, they both worked out of the home. Labor was shared as much as possible and where necessary divided along the lines of expertise. There were traditional roles of course, and roles more fitting to physical labor of the most extreme sort fell to the man for obvious reasons. But, all in all, each did his part according to the most sensible means to accomplish securing the viability of the household.
Secondly, there is no standard by which we can measure today who had what expertise, precisely, back then. If the husband could read, he taught reading, and if he could sew and his wife could not, he sewed. If she shot straighter, she hunted, and if she could drive a nail faster she owned the hammer. It is simplistic to think that “roles” have ever been determined soley along the lines of sex. There are far too many mitigating circumtances to assign gender roles. It is a modern construct that says women should be at home and men at a job and only has typical relevance to the past.
My father and mother inlaw own and operate a ranch. They both were ranchers. He worked also in the mines to provide extra income for the household. She was a working rancher and wife who also was a homemaker. While he mined, she ranched, when he ranched she ranched, when she made the beds, often he helped. They are not stupid. He holds a degree in Engineering and is gifted in nearly every occupation of construction and mechanics that you might imagine. She is a gifted homemaker. They are both ranchers. It would take a half dozen men to do the ranching that they do as a team. No two men can string fence as fast as they. It does not matter what their gifts are, though. If the giftings had been reversed, they would still be ranchers. The point is that the “home” industry is what ever them homies want it to be, in any kind of arrangemen that they see fit to do home.
In our culture of miopic “fundamentalism” we impose upon Scripture our cultural norms of behavior that simply do not inhere in the texts. You did not address the working women of Scripture that were the providers for their husbands ministries. If you want to limit ministry to the formal ministry, you are welcome to it. The word that is used for ministry when linked to “the” is always the ministry of the word in Scripture. But, as this thread has made clear, ministry also refers to the general calling of people in vocation. In either case, the man, not the church or the woman, is a priest, king and prophet over his home.
So, let’s go to Titus. First observation that we should make is not in Chapter Two. Chapter One is given on to instruct on the qualifications of Elders. There is a break in the flow of thought and the emphasis is focused on doctrine. It then continues in Chapter Two. So, the first verse in Chapter 2 is a continuation of the qualifications of Elders. Verse 2, is the beginnings of the qualifications of an elder’s wife, or mature women in relationship to the leaders of the Church (see Timothy). The terms for elder, older man, and older woman are all the same word, except for gender. The qualifications listed here are the same as those found in 1 Timothy where the qualification for both Elders wives and deacons wives are subsumed under one heading, women.
In summation the leading versus in Chapter 2 have nothing to do with the normal household, or the dutie of the layman or lay woman. They address the leadership households and set them as an example, (“Likewise urge the young men”), of orderliness for the community of believers. It should go without saying, that unless there is no other means except that the elder man works, then he should by all means work. The first priority, though, is the work of the ministry, even if it causes lack in the house. Our primary example is the “Twelve”, who set the precedent when they instructed the church to appoint the seven. The first and most critical job that an Elder can do is to care for the flock and that means in study and ministry of the word to both the saved and the unsaved.
So, just as the Twelve said, that it is not fitting that they should wait table, so also it is not necessarily fitting that a man should be the worker provider of the household.
That being said, it is still the propriety of the man, as lord of the household, to determine the best means of directing the affairs of the home. It would be foolish if the skills that I decribed in my mother and father-inlaw were reversed, to endanger or lower the viability of the household, to lose the ranch, by keeping a “traditional” standard” emposed upon the structure of the family. A standard viewed as many as sin. They would rather that my inlaws lose the ranch, as stupid as it may sound, by not letting her work outside the home, even if that is what my father-inlaw saw as the best means of providing for his family.
The real key word here is home. The traditionalist framework makes home the address where someone lives. The more realistic and rational, and more bibilical use of home is not associated with the structure but the entire system of family life.
You might want to quote, as some did in this thread, “If a man does not provide for his family, he is worse than a gentile and has denied the faith.” Well, is ruling the household provisional? Only if providing is limited to the modern mentality of the “bread winner” does this verse even remotely apply.
The real caution is against idleness, or not working. Again, I would question how you determine what is not working. If you mean holding down a job outside the home as your definition of work, you are operating from a cultural bias that has blinded you by tradition. In biblical times you would rarely find a man working outside the home. Oh, he might be in the field, but most likely, his wife and his kids would be right next to him. In fact, except for the specialized skills of the individual, the members of the household would share in all general duties.
Now, if a woman works outside the home in the job market because that is where she is best suited and can provide best for her family what is the difference except that in today’s evangelical mentality, traditions have created the aire of a legalistic model of the family that is an historical myth. It never existed until the industrial age and for the greater part of history most women and men work in the home. In fact, at the turn of the century, before the advent of labor unions and child labor laws, men and their wives with their children worked together outside the home, often. The stay at home mom with kids became a twentieth century model because of suffragette activism in concert with labor unionization. Without a doubt it was a good thing for the time.
If the man is most suited to work at home in domestic responsibilities, a better teacher, cook, bottle washer, et cetera, why would anyone want to take the most efficient home and make it the least by imposing extraneous legalisms that have no foundation in Scripture. Perhaps its the myth that men are not as nuturing as women, hmm? Well, having been created in the image of the Father, I sure do not believe that even if that is what society tells us, I would want to believe it. It is not true of me and I would guess that most unitimidated men will confess that they are very nuturing towards their children. It surely does not come from Scripture. In fact, at least as far as my household is concerned, there is no domestic duty that my wife is more skilled at, than I, even in the area of child rearing. My secular degree is in Social work with a minor in Psychology with a strong emphasis on child developement. I am a teacher, handi-man, concrete finisher, painter, minor mechanic, cook, janitor, carpenter…you name it I have done it and I am good, somewhat, at it. My wife is is a nurse and functionally no home maker skills are her forte’ to put it mildly. So what would you suggest. You see, I am ego involved in this arguement. I am retired and stay at home with my children, but even if I had never worked, would you still bind my hands to a dysfunctional household by making it “law” that a woman should stay at home. Preposterous!
MacArthur can contrive any number of reasons why women should stay at home and support it with a laundry list of versus. It makes no difference. There are the exceptions that must be accounted for if one is to norm behavior for a class of people. It just is too hard from the Scripture, because there are just too many exceptions. As I said, women were the main source of income for Christ and his disciples. And, it appears that in atleast some cases women (perhaps the entire family) traveled along with the apostles in there “great commission,” probably so that they could do the work of earning income and free the men to do the work of ministry. So, you can not make any hard fast rules of behavior concerning the roles of men and women in the home base in Scripture. Besides, as I indicated it has been a stumbling block for the church is its commission. Rarely do we see, or will we hear of a ministry that is centered on the raising up of men for ministry (we in fact make men insignificant in their roles within the church) if we maintain the cultural standard of men as primary wage earners. It a nice trick that the “priesthood” class has pulled. It keeps the rarity of oportunities to the pulpit few and insures that a professional clientele will always be needed to fill the pastorate. But, it does not allow for the mass training of commissioners to take the gospel to the ends of the earth.
I do not know who your pastor was that told you that the Pr 31 woman was a super woman, it really does not matter. And, she is called simply a good wife. She did not just have a part time job, either. She was a career woman, buying, selling, trading, planting, ruling her servants (an executive, for shame). And the career that she had was her home and the purpose for it was the providing for all of it, period. Her husband was a servant of God, is the point of the proverb, evangelizing in the highest seats of the city, period. This is quite familiar, because it is exactly what Jesus told his disciples to do. And, they did it with the income that was provided by the women that followed them, period.
I said nothing about violating Titus 2, and nothing about expoiting women. You do not understand Titus, however. And there is nothing bad about setting the example for your children of managing your household to its optimum performance. In fact it would teach them prudence, wisdom, and show them that there is more to the truth of the Gospel than traditions of men.
You reacted to the word lucrative as if it were a derogatory term. It simply means great earnings. It is merely blind prejudice on your part. You also balked at the term career. If your wife works at home, I would like you to tell her how she does not have a career. Career is merely another name for vocation or job and comes from a root that means “wheeled carriage,” connoting the idea of carrying a load. Again, turn to your wife and tell her she does not carry her load.
You see it does not matter whether it is inside or outside the “house.” Working at home is better interpreted as meaning working for the home rather that seeking self interests as is indicated in verse 3, cf 1 Timothy 3.11. In 1 Timothy 5.8, that I quoted before, it is not talking about husbands, anyway, but about any who have widows that are relatives and need assistance. (So, tell us, ask John Mac, how many widows are on the roles at your church or in your household?) 1 Tim 5.13 returns to the topic of self seeking women, and the emphasis is on working to provide for the household and be about their lord’s business. Verse 16 is curious in that there is no break in the flow of thought. So, one must conclude, that it is the married woman who is to provide for her widows out of her earnings. The words of Titus, “at home” in the Greek come from two roots, one meaning guard and the other household. Put together they mean to protect the interests of the family, or the marriage. It possibly could mean, especially in Titus 2.5, more specifially, the ministry of the husband. To ensure, that he is able to fulfill what the Lord has called him to do, either in the home or in the church. So, the place the woman has, it the biblical scheme of the home, is in charge of providing for his and his children’s needs, so that he may be about the Lord’s work. That is a great reversal. Feminists hate the idea as oppressive. Evangelicals hate the idea because they they have no clue as to the teaching of Scripture and the priorities set out for every man’s responsibility to seek the highest calling, which is not to provide for his household as the sole wage earner, necessarily, but is rather to provide the example of forsaking all for following Christ, including the expections of traditionalism, which may mean staying at home as a provider of domestic concerns while he wife works a job.
Emily, I’m not assuming a model; the model is in the Bible that was given us where the Lord desires to conform us up to it rather than His compromising to let us remain where we are when off mark concerning leadership in the Body of Christ and the home. Husbands can be lovingly encouraged to be what God wants them to be, without nagging, too(been there and did that in early married years). The way He’s worked in our home is the less focus and talking by me concerning shortfalls of hubby with “the model” and more on submitting to being a Mary when it comes to study and letting the Lord change me…well, there has been a ripple outward effect that amazes me and blesses us all.
Rich, I’m glad you shared that title; a similar line of thought was written by Nancy Lee DeMoss in Lies Women Believe and the Truth that Sets Them Free.
Have enjoyed discussing yet don’t want to monopolize.
I must echo Thomas Twitchell’s comments. I see in many of the other comments a presumption that if a woman is working, then the family is chasing after a two income lifestyle and neglecting the family. That presumption is not warranted and not true, even of solidly Christian families. My husband and I have a household situtation quite similar to Thomas’. I am blessed with a professional degree and more importantly professional skills, gifted from God, which enable me to make a comfortable financial living for my family. My husband is gifted with financial management skills, household repair and management skills, and most importantly the gift of teaching our sons, now teenage and pre-teen how to be well-educated, Godly men. He runs the household, homeschools our sons and oversees their activities, makes repairs and is available for ministry opportunities and service at church. He is using his gifts to the greatest advantage, as am I. He is the head of the household regardless of who brings in the financial income. I work and a paycheck is deposited into our joint account twice a month, and that is the extent of my knowledge of our household management. The rest is subject to my husband’s faithful leadership. We have sought God’s leading throughout, and we have been blessed immensely with innumerable opportunities,chief of which is the opportunity for me to use my God-given talents working for a ministry that puts me on the front lines in the culture war and enables me to make a visible difference in stemming the degradation of our culture. God has blessed our choices throughout, including moving us to a part of the country where we can be better stewards of our time, talents and resources and can better provide for our sons’ future service in the Lord. I have felt the Holy Spirit’s conviction in many aspects of my life, but not in this choice.
I am certainly not against women remaining at home and the husband working, and would take on that role myself if my husband and I truly believed that was what God intended for us. However, I believe that part of our freedom in Christ is the freedom to respond and obey God’s call in whatever form that takes, even if it is “unconventional” in the eyes of some.
As early as deuteronomy the woman in the field is mentioned- the field being the major corporation in that day. The tradition and culture of the Bible must be considered in the translation. Just as use of the ‘towel’ in Christ’s feet washing and the ‘loin’ cloth in Peter to represent other modern-day equivalent, let’s translate the ‘culture’ to today’s equivalent.
When Jesus said go in the world, he did not specify men, and indeed He rained down the gifts on men and women in the upperroom. This ‘light’ they received in the upper room should not be hidden under table ie the man’s status.
Most of the comments are directed toward a married couple with children. What of a couple who married late in life, have no children and both have careers?
Another question relating to this topic would be whether or not a couple looking to get married should both work. I recently heard on a Christian radio program, according to the pastor on the show, there should be five stipulations before marriage. One being that the woman not have a job as they go into marriage.
As me and my fiance are looking to be married soon, this is an important question for us since she is now working.
As a note, I might add that once we have children, we have both agreed she will not work.
our children are 16 and 13 and are in school all day, we live in a simple mobile home and still struggle to make “ends meet” my husband and i and our children work hard everyday to keep the household chores done and such. in the world that we live in i would feel terribe to lay all the financial burden on my husbands shoulders when i am perfectly capable of contributing while the kids are in school anyway! we both teach our children christian values and want them to have happy families someday of their own. i know to many homeschool mothers who are trying to keep their kids in “christian bubbles” out of fear of the world. this world is a tough place to live in with satan on the prowl, thank god we have jesus christ in our hearts to help us every breath of our life. we cant be doing our part if we are all home sitting on the couch eating potato chips all day watching another fine episode of benny hinn! sometimes you just have to follow your heart, and mine tells me that if you dont work you dont eat, and god will lay on your heart where he needs you to be in order to meet the needs of your family and his.
a couple more things, i certainly dont watch benny hinn, i watch word pictures and kirk cameron. i had another thought too. i happen to be the one who carries all the health and dental insurance through my job for our family. my husbands job doesnt even offer any, where would we be everytime something happened to us where we needed to get healthcare etc, knocking on the church door begging for help putting a strain on the church? i just find it hard to beleive that in our culture today god wants all christian women at home. obviously that is fine if our world was perfect. what about the married women that arent even able to have children? i surely think the lord can use them for more than staying home all day.
I have struggled with this question for years now. I want to take Scripture seriously, yet I don’t want to be bound by another’s interpretation based a lot on his own upbringing or preference. Here’s my situation – have a go at it …
My wife is a physician – an OBGYN actually. She works in an all-female office and treats only female patients. She is very good at what she does and treats many of the women in the church we attend. While she does work hard, we have kept her hours down (and given up pay) in order to have her home as much as possible while being able to function as a business.
If it matters, my wife was already on track in her education to become a physician before we met, and since I was a new christian at the time, I did not even think of “roles” for a few years after that. In addition, her ability to “keep up with me” intellectually was one of the things that attracted me to her. Had she been like many other women (and I’m not putting them down), I probably would not have been intrigued and pursued a relationship at that time in my life. She was unique.
I have a master’s degree in computer science. I worked a 9 to 5 job when my daughter was born, but it became apparent that we could not continue to go on the schedule we had. When I considered our options, the easiest was that we did not want to put our child(ren) in daycare. So, obviously, one of us needed to stay home. As I weighed the impact of her ministering to patients and me working to increase someone’s profit, it seemed that it might make more sense “kingdomly-oriented” to have her keep her job. In addition, computer programming lends itself nicely to working out of the house at odd hours.
So, here we are 9 years later. It has been a struggle at times, but what family doesn’t have strugles?
I have discussed this with others at my church and they say that my wife and I are an example to them in the way we relate. My wife has a gentle spirit, yet challenges me in all the right areas to spur me on to be more like Christ.
It seems that there is a sense that some remove this verse from its context and that it is used to promote a 1950’s style America at times. What gets me the most, though, is that so many people who hold to the “traditional view” do not embody marriages that I respect. They are rarely ones I aspire to emulate. To be fair, I have not observed John MacArthur personally, so I have no way to know if his marriage lives up to “Christ loving the church” or if it is one coated by layer upon layer of shellac in order to project a certain image …
Have at it …
hi
Im married with 3 children and I made a decision to be a stay at home mother from the time of my firstborn. From a religious perspective I didnt become a christian until recently , so all the decisions that I made for my family were made before my conversion.
However I knew right from the start I wanted to stay at home with my children which was the driving motivation then which has spread over the years to encompass everything to do with the home and not just children.
Yes of course i clean and shop and cook and garden etc during the day, but I would say the most important and busiest time of the day fro me is the evenings when my husband and children get home from work and school.
How on earth Mothers who work cope with this time of the day is beyone me really.
Its not just about cooking dinner and washing up and making small talk , I am there for everyone when they come home with decent food and time to listen to them and their troubles and to help the children with homework and make sure it gets done, when they go to after school activities i make sure they get there and back safely, i KNOW EXACTLY who they are with, what they are doing, where they are, how they are getting home etc how many parents can say that in this day and age?
I sew and i bake and quilt and crochet and knit the whole family know i am in service to them and them FIRST
I am very pleased to discover this is how the Bible wants me to lead my life as a married woman and wonder now looking back if the Holy spirit was calling me long before my born again conversion a a few years ago.
Im not a educated person or a theologian, I just feel in my heart it is important for my family (and community who benefit from my helping hands too) that I put them before any desire to work to enjoy more money any status that would encrue, and to ignore the people ove rthe years who have laughed or sneered at me and made comments such as you are lazy when are you going back to work or to get a proper job.
carol
ps can the moderator add that the correct order of the day is God, then family ….. NOT family then God second
sorry
im just struggling to express that my duties come to my family before work outside the home