Why Fight for Truth?
December 11th, 2006
(By John MacArthur)
The following is adapted from John’s upcoming book, The Truth War (Nelson, Spring 2007).
Rather than respond to the contemporary infatuation with postmodern ambiguity in a completely positive and nonpolemical way, I find myself compelled to echo the inspired words of Jude and exhort my readers who truly love Christ: you need to contend earnestly for the faith. Truth is under heavy attack, and there are too few courageous warriors who are willing to fight. When we stand before the judgment seat of Christ, believers from this generation will not be able to justify their apathy by complaining that the strife of conflict over truth just seemed “too negative” for the kind of culture we lived in—or that the issues were “merely doctrinal” and therefore not worth the effort.
Remember, Christ rebuked the churches in Revelation 2–3 who had tolerated false teachers in their midst (2:14–16; 20–23). He expressly commended the Ephesian church for examining the claims of certain false apostles and exposing them as liars (2:2). Churches have a clear duty to guard the faith against false teachers who infiltrate. Christ Himself demands it.
At the same time, we need to notice carefully that a polemical defense of the faith by no means guarantees a healthy church, much less a healthy individual Christian. Christ also rebuked the doctrinally sound Ephesians for departing from their first love (Revelation 2:4). As vital as it is for us to enlist in the Truth War and do battle for our faith, it is even more important to remember why we are fighting—not merely for the thrill of vanquishing some foe or winning some argument, but out of a genuine love for Christ, who is the living, breathing embodiment of all that we hold true and worth fighting for.
I heartily agree with contending for the faith, but to remember why we are fighting, and to fight with a heart broken as Paul did so that he could identify with Christ. Sometimes we “fight” because all we have done is get angry so that Christ cannot use our “anger” to bring about his “truth.” I am so thankful for John and how the Lord is using this humble servant.
Very well said,
“As vital as it is for us to enlist in the Truth War and do battle for our faith, it is even more important to remember why we are fighting—not merely for the thrill of vanquishing some foe or winning some argument, but out of a genuine love for Christ,”
Peter says it in 1 Peter 3:15 to defend the hope that is within you, yet with gentleness and fear.
I think Peter is telling us to admonish others in gentleness but not be so gentle that we change the truth and that is where the word “fear” or “reverence” comes in to play, to not change the Word for others because we are fearful of God.
That’s been a fine line of which I’ve been praying a lot to stay on the correct side.
Debating/arguing should be worthwhile with a worthwhile goal, or it moves from “iron sharpening” to bending nails.
Thank you for the post!
John Macarthur,
You correctly state the following:
“Remember, Christ rebuked the churches in Revelation 2–3 who had tolerated false teachers in their midst (2:14–16; 20–23). He expressly commended the Ephesian church for examining the claims of certain false apostles and exposing them as liars (2:2). Churches have a clear duty to guard the faith against false teachers who infiltrate. Christ Himself demands it.”
Why do you then play the hypocrite by allowing false teachers like UN agent, Al Mohler, to infiltrate your church? Why don’t you expose him as a liar? Why do you tolerate other false teachers at Grace who are bringing in the UN backed church growth movement?
Incredibly, you then use the UN buzzwords “healthy church” and “healthy Christian.” Where does it say in scripture that a church should be “healthy” or a Christian should be “healthy?” The answer is nowhere. Then why do you use these terms and where did you get them from? These terms come from the UN through it’s WHO and they describe churches that have merged with the world.
When you stand before the judgment seat, how will you justify your own compromise?
This book is not coming out a minute too soon. Emergent books are in our colleges and seminaries. I was recently fired from a teaching position at Southern Baptist college because of my vocal stand against the Emergent.
In that school, students that are young, naive, and not great thinkers because they are products of the government school system are reading Miller, McLaren, and others. The school administration refuses to take a stand because they are cowards.
Taking fire,
Phil Perkins.
The Pilgrim…interesting that you take shots with no web address to see what else you teach…pretty easy to stand behind a wall and shoot shots over it eh?
Pretty amazing claims…
Seth McBee,
I have no web address. I’m speaking the truth. I’m not behind any wall. What exactly do you find so amazing?
The Pilgrim
Hey did you read that dude’s post yesterday alledging that Al Mohler’s being a false teacher? (Seems I heard that somewhere before). Can anyone out there enlighten me on the subject? If Al has worked out something with the U. N. how come no one else made comment?…Maybe he’s too busy working on the Nafta Super Highway with George Bush…Now there’s a conspiracy that’s got long legs…Dude, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt if you can prove it…
Johnson Butler,
I’ll give your sincerity the benefit of the doubt and I’ll help enlighten you. John Macarthur’s good friend, Al Mohler, sits on the board of an org. called Focus on the Family. FOTF is a non-governmental org listed with the UN. FOTF is a UN-NGO with special consultative status-as such, FOTF and it’s board are fully dedicated to the UN agenda. These facts are very easy to prove. I hope I was able to help you, dude.
The Pilgrim
Dear Pilgrim…you mean to tell me that Dr. James Dobson & Al Mohler are friends. That seems strange. Dobson uses too much psycho-babble for my taste. So is Dobson going to speak at the Shepherds Conference too?…Isn’t he an Arminian?…Come on man…Everyone knows the UN is a joke…I still don’t understand why a Christian org would even think of hooking up with the UN…what truth comes out of the UN?…Are you sure of the facts?, these are serious allegations. Hey Mohler’s smarter than that…MacArthur wouldn’t tolerate such associations…he’s true blue…
J. Butler,
Mohler and Dobson sit on the same board. Does that make them friends? It certainly means they share the same agenda. No true Christian org. would ever hook up with the UN–only apostate orgs. Certainly no Biblical truth comes out of the UN. These are serious allegations and I am quite sure of the facts. Macarthur and the Grace leaders know all about Mohler’s FOTF/UN connections. Don’t be fooled. We’ll know them by their fruit. Macarthur is an ecumenist and a bridge-builder. He’s disobedient to the doctrine of separation. The Grace Church leaders go along because they are also compromisers who need to keep paying their bills. Take note of what Macarthur said–he wants Grace Church to become “healthy.” If the congregation at Grace truly understood what a “healthy church means”, then they’d remove Macarthur and his compromised leadership asap. Truly, a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
The Pilgrim
J Butler,
Regarding Macarthur’s close and inexplicable friendship with Al Mohler: Note Amos 3:3–Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
The Pilgrim
Pilgrim
Thanks for the information. I already had my doubts.
I’d rather sup with the strippers then din with a bunch of self-righteous, presumptuous, arrogant pharisees.
Pilgrim,
Before anyone jumps to the conclusions that you have based on “guilt by association”, I think it might be prudent to consider that these are extraordinary times that require extraordinary Biblical discernment. All in the Church had fallen asleep. Pray that leaders in the church heed the Word and are given discernment for the spiritual battles that are ongoing. Listen to this comment from a progressive political research organization:
“These pro-family forces recognize the value of supporting multiple strategies simultaneously. They see the value of cultivating personal relationships with potential allies at United Nations’ gatherings that were designed with very different goals from their own. They do not hesitate to imagine that they are capable of influencing global institutions. They have tasted victory, and they will come back for another helping.” Link: http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v20n1/chamberlain_globalization.html
What wall are you behind? first you don’t even give your real name…I wouldn’t be surprised if you were associated with Darwin Fish…
Pilgrim…Don’t you have any other proof other than that posted by Sandra who concluded it was “guilt by association”? I know Dr. Mohler was once an ally with Billy Graham in the past and even though Mr. Graham has evolved into a universalist by his statements on Shuller’s Hour of Power, I’m sure Dr. Mohler has biblically separated himself from Graham. I’m certain the board of elders at Grace are well aware of Dr. Mohler and approve of him otherwise he would not be allowed to speak at the Shepherds Conference. I’m assuming that the board includes men of biblical wisdom & discernment. I’m sure you are at a loss for words now. Johnson Butler.
Sandra; I did check out the link you provided but my conclusion is contrary. Conservative Christians would be wise to heed Sen. Jesse Helms admonition warning against one world government. Doesn the Bible also warn us of this? As far as so called Christian organizations working with the State Dept., didn’t Rick Warren consult with the State Dept. & CFR before his ill fated trip to Syria? Look at how Warren has enacted building programs in Rwanda with their official government sanction. This is compromise with evil. Remember we are not to be “unequally yolked”. The UN globalist agenda sits in stark contrast to our Biblical world view. I mainly care about how my pastor John MacArthur carries himself. If there is any truth about Dr. Mohler being linked to the UN then maybe Dr. MacArthur should re-assess his friendship with Mohler. I don’t know enough about what Pilgrim says but I do understand that the UN is not the place for any true Christian to be affliaed with. I would appreciate your thoughts on this matter. What we are looking for is truth not compromise.
Excellent post Dr.MacArthur
So Pilgrim…
what did Daniel do when he was a part of the unregenerate king’s court?
Was he in the wrong? Was he a false prophet?
Stop stirring up conspiracy theories and join in the battle to warn the flock of the real dangers by those who are preaching a false gospel and fake salvation.
As you said:
“When you stand before the judgment seat”, how will you justify your false attacks?
Sandra,
It seems to me that you have been tempted to take a pragmatic approach given our “extraordinary times.” Christians can never justify disobedience to God’s Word for the sake of human relationship building.
The UN is the enemy of the traditional family. A genuine pro-family org. would never seek a relationship with UN allies. One would have to be naive to believe a pro-family org. could influence a global institution. These “pro-family” orgs. that are seeking a relationship with UN allies only have the appearance of being pro-family. What you’re seeing here is the dialectic process at work–the synthesizing of opposites–the traditional family with the global agenda.
Macarthur can never justify building relationships with Christ’s enemies.
The Pilgrim
Seth McBee,
You’ve made two comments now that are both ad-hominem arguments. An ad-hominem attack is a fallacy in argument. Can’t you comment on the facts? I have a question for you. Macarthur wrote a book called “Charismatic Chaos” in which he showed that the Charismatic spirit is not God’s Spirit. Six years later he publicly endorsed the ministry of Greg Laurie, a pillar in the Charismatic movement (Laurie believes being “slain in the spirit” is a Christian experience.) Why did Macarthur endorse Laurie’s ministry?
The Pilgrim
Pilgrim, Perkins & Butler:
Odd that so many of you should be attracted to a post titled, “Why Fight for Truth?” That an assembly of ultra-separatists should rail at mere “conservatives” like John MacArthur, Billy Graham, Greg Laurie, and James Dobson almost boggles the mind if it weren’t so typical.
Consider this Scripture from Galatians:
“The whole law is fulfilled in one word, in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you
bite and devour one another, be careful that you don’t consume one another. But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you won’t fulfill the lust of the flesh.”
Jesus the Son of God also said that the Law and the Prophets are summed up in two commandments, to love God and love our neighbor.
Sorry for going so overboard on love. I guess I spent too much time in I Corinthians 13 as a youth.
So go ahead, nothing gets the blood flowing like a good fight, eh?
Shame on you.
Cindy, before I applaud your post, I need to ask you one question: who is this “bunch of self-righteous, presumptuous, arrogant pharisees” you mention?
If you mean Pilgrim, Perkins & Butler, then I must agree with you.
I truly hope you aren’t referring to John MacArthur, Billy Graham, Greg Laurie, and James Dobson.
Regards,
Whyte
Group; My there are some odd names here aren’t there? Self rightous, presumptuous, arrogant pharisees. That sounds about as bad as the allegations against Mohler or MacArthur. Has anyone checked out any of these conspiracies?…Of course not…It’s easier just to dismiss them. But what if they are actually true. Would anyone believe Ted Haggard was homosexual before he was found out? How many of you actually saw Billy Graham on the Hour of Power? I did. He admitted there was a wide road to heaven and there were believers all over the world who didn’t even know who Jesus was that were saved. This is public information you can check it out yourself on Google. I don’t know about Al Mohler but I will attempt to verify it for myself.
Renee,
Daniel was held captive. Mohler is in leadership positions of UN orgs. of his own volition. I have not stated any theories-only provable facts. I haven’t made one false attack. I don’t think you realize that many false Christians can and do preach a true gospel. These false Christians can pose a great danger to the church because their real agenda remains hidden.
Rosa,
Thanks for your comment. Unlike the others who want to kill the messenger, you have enough sense to check out the message first. Let me know if I can be of help. Graham is a good example of a false Christian who preached a true gospel for years, but really had a globalist agenda all along. By the way, Mohler, his fellow Southern Baptist, has served as the chairman of Graham’s crusades.
The Pilgrim
J Butler,
The board of elders at Grace Church are well aware of Mohler’s associations. They are well aware of his UN connections. Sadly, they choose to overlook those disturbing facts in order to further their ecumenical, bridge-building agenda. At the expense of truth, they’d rather have a type of unbiblical unity. You think the elders at Grace exercise Biblical discernment? If they do, then how has the church growth movement managed to infiltrate their church over the last few years?
The Pilgrim
J. Butler,
I do believe in the doctrine of separation of the church from worldly powers (Mark 12:17); I also believe Isa 48:11 which states that God will not give his glory to another. I believe we should not partner with the world when it comes to God’s Glory.
Pilgrim,
I would not so quickly become judge and jury since God is a merciful God and forgives us of our sins. It’s possible to go too far the other way.
The Pilgrim.
I don’t answer for MacArthur, but I do think that I am right in you being a Darwin Fish follower or the Fish himself.
What is Darwin Fish?
Nathan,
I am deeply saddened by some of the responses to this post. It’s unworthy of a blog like Pulpit Magazine. I suppose it’s to be expected when you take a blog public, but I do believe you have a right as the blog master to delete the nastiest responses.
If this keeps us, Pulpit will degenerate into nothing more than a slander-blog and I for one will no longer read it. I’ve got better things to do with my time.
I enjoy and benefit from substantive challenges to the posts here. Debate (even vigorous disagreement) makes you think. But no one benefits from the kind of garbage that attacks the personal integrity of men Like Al Mohler and John MacArthur.
Maybe you should set some more stringent ground rules about slander and gossip, and restrict how long a reply can be.
Blessings,
Steve Lamm
Never mind, I think I’ve found it. There needs to be truth between the two extremes of one world ecumenism that’s universalist and the other extreme of separating oneself from the body of believers. I for one like John MacArthur’s material.
Restrict how long a reply can be? Please, Steve, not that. That would ruin me!
Whyte,
In response to your question first of all I want to say that you do not have to applaud my post. I am not asking anyone to applaud me…..why should we look for the praise of men? I will answer your question but first I want to add a few thoughts in reference to the men you listed.
First of all the fact that JM has taken these insults and criticisms with temperance and self-control should speak enough about his character to some degree. The people here could have deleted many of these comments like Steven just said, so for that I commend John. However, I will add that I do not venerate men and treat them like they are infallable just because they are prominent and have high postions or prestige. JM is a man who has a flesh like all of us do and he has to battle his flesh just like all us who are born-again. To deny that reality is to venerate him and that I will not do. I have no malice in my heart towards anyone and certainly just because I do not agree with everything JM says does not mean I am his enemy.
Billy Graham is an ecumenicalist and his philosophy is all roads lead to Rome…that is the broad road that leads to destruction not the narrow road God spoke of that leads to life.
James Dobson uses his ministry to promote hollywood celebrities such as Mel Gibson, Sean Hannity, and others. He also is an ecumenicalist on the broad road and he promotes a gospel of self-esteem which is antithetical to the bible in which we all are abased before a Holy God and should be taught how to live soberly. We are bombarded by satan’s garbage day in and day out. Hollywood nonsense and worldliness is thrown in our faces and crammed down our mouths 24/7, so why then do we need more hollywood nonsense coming out of a Christian ministry?
And as far as “sup with the strippers than dine with the pharisees” that was not addressed to anyone in particular but with that being said I have been wounded in the house of God to many times that yes, I would rather sup with the strippers than dine with the self-righteousness pharisees.
We are all like down allies in enemey territory. Pow’s battling the flesh, the world and satan. Yes it’s a war down here and from God’s perspective the outward ( our flesh ), though it waste away, our inward man is being renewed day by day, so we fix our eyes on what is unseen because what is seen is temporal but what is unseen is Eternal.
Cindy
Sandra,
You’re right, it is possible to go too far the other way. I pray that Macarthur repent of his association with Mohler.
Seth McBee,
Another ad hominem attack. You’re wrong. I’m not Fish and I don’t follow him.
Steven Lamb,
You say what’s been written is slander. Writing slander means writing lies. You’re the one lying. Why don’t you be specific? And why don’t you prove it’s slander? You can’t because it’s all true.
You state, “no one benefits from the kind of garbage that attacks the personal integrity of men like Mohler and Macarthur.” What you call garbage happens to be the truth. Mohler is in positions of leadership in not one, but two, UN-NGO’s. He is dedicated to the UN agenda. Since you know this man well enough to defend his integrity, then why don’t you tell us which NGO’s he holds leadership positions in and why don’t you try to justify his involvement in these anti-Christ orgs.? Why would a Christian of great integrity be involved with the UN? And why would another Christian of great integrity, possessing this knowledge, invite him into his pulpit?
Mr. Lamb, the only one guilty of slander here is you. You’re afraid to take a good look at the facts because you may find out that some “Christian” men that you idolize may have certain very anti-christian associations. And you’d have a very tough time reconciling those associations with their professed Christianity.
You can’t stand facts and so NOW YOU WANT THEM CENSORED!! You can’t take truths that are unpopular or that expose hypocrisy among church leaders. You know the old saying–if the heat’s too hot, then get out of the kitchen. Why don’t you restrict yourself to blogsites where no unpopular truths are proclaimed; blogsites that never mention Macarthur’s disobedience to God’s Word or blogsites that think it’s wonderful that Mohler is in bed with the UN.
Nathan the blogmaster,
Thank you for this blog and for allowing this discourse to continue. If you prove I’m mistaken in one fact, then ban me from this site–till then, please don’t appease dishonest crybabies like Mr. Lamb with censorship (of course all cursing and unchristian discourse should be censored).
The Pilgrim
Sandra,
There is no truth between the two extremes of ecumenism and separation. The Christian can’t compromise. The Christian must be separate.
The Pilgrim
Pilgrim,
The kind of separation that Darwin Fish is advocating is not Christian either, it’s cultic.
PILGRIM: Just what is your definition of “healthy church” and why is that term so important? It sounds rather like a psychological or new age term. I know the term hasn’t been around that long. You make some controversial points. I still admire John MacArthur’s teaching, he’s as solid as they come. I am concerned about the way much of the church is going and some of the alliances pastors have made. I don’t consider your conclusions as slanderous as yet until I have checked them out. Others seem to dismiss them outright w/o any research. Has anyone else checked these things out? If so please let me know what you found out. They may not be important to you but they are to me. Rosa.
[…] At Pulpit magazine John MacArthur explains why we should fight for truth and how such opposition in the church is nothing new. He also explains the logic behind logic behind postmodernism. […]
Sandra,
I NO NOTHING ABOUT WHAT D FISH IS ADVOCATING. I DON”T HAVE ANY ASSOCIATION WITH HIM.
Rosa,
Thanks for your comments and your common sense. It should put up a red flag when J Macarthur or any other professed Christian uses the term “healthy church.” This term comes from the UN. The UN also advocates healthy societies, healthy nations, healthy communities, healthy families and healthy citizens. A healthy church is also advocated by the leaders of the UN backed church growth movement. A healthy church is a church that employs the dialectic process (facilitated small groups). It is a church that is no longer separate from the world, but one that has been synthesized with the world by utilizing the dialectic process (the synthesizing of opposites [church and state]). A Healthy church is a church that is diverse, tolerant and worldly and not holy and set apart–in other words, a church ready to be merged into the one world church and government under antichrist. All PDC’s are “healthy.”
You should be extremely concerned about the unchristian alliances that Macarthur has made. Let me know if I can help you further.
Pilgrim,
Just curious are you an Independent Baptist.
Shane
Pilgrim,
Thanks for your comments. The UN is under satan’s control and the UN has a hidden agenda…they hate Israel and yet God has a definite future for this tiny little nation. Those of us who know Bible prophesy know this. And God has said that He will bless those who bless Israel and He will curse those who curse Israel. Some have taught that the church has replaced Israel. That is a lie.
Some have jumped on the bandwagon of Global Warming like Brian Mclaren and Rick Warren to name a few. Global Warming has a foundation that built on lies and Al Gore propagates this through political means. God controls all the elements as in says repeatedly throughtout the Bible especially in the book of Job and Isaiah.
Many people think the Federal Reserve is American and controlled by the Amerian government. That’s a guise they use to cover they’re real agenda….currency control. The Federal Reserve is actually controlled by a few large investment banks around the world, one being the Rothschild bank of England in which the vatican has billions.
The EU (European Union) is growing in membership slowly and I think eventually will swollow American and render American ecomony null and void. American is already in such debt that our deficit is undeniable. And the economies of China, Indonesa, Japan are growing by leaps and bounds and because everything is merging slowly into a global agenda, America will be lost in the process.
Public education is losing to local control and is slowly moving toward’s state control and then national control which opens the door for communist indoctrinations.
If people would take the time to investigate everything and not take things at face value, they would be shocked and would then be able to see that underneath all the propagation and so called “noble causes” is actually the current of satanick global control that is slowly becoming universal. Yes, you are right. But thank goodness we have God’s Word and many educated and concerned Christian Leaders that care enough to get the word out and expose the smoke screens.
Cindy,
You make alot of good points and you make alot of sense. You say, “If people would take the time to investigate everything and not take things at face value, they would be shocked and would then be able to see that underneath all the propagation and so called “noble causes” is actually the current of satanick global control that is slowly becoming universal.” I couldn’t agree with you more. And unfortunately, that communist global control has infiltrated and taken over the churches via the church growth movement (IT IS NOW AT GRACE CHURCH). This is why I was concerned when Macarthur started using terms like “healthy churches.” And I was very concerned when Macarthur invited globalists like Mohler into his pulpit. I’ve found that people at Grace Church are afraid to investigate their church and their church leaders. They are afraid to take a good look at people like Mohler and Dever–two men embracing the global agenda (Grace congregants are sound asleep). Grace Church leaders are now very compromised and I disagree with you that there are many educated church leaders exposing the smokescreens–true Christians exposing this are few and far between.
Can I ask if you attend Grace? Would you be interested to know that it is now becoming purpose driven? The situation at Grace is much worse than the congregation there could imagine and worse still, I believe Macarthur is well aware of the compromise (infiltration) in his church.
TO CINDY: You have great wisdom but the real question still is what is Al Mohler doing being affiliated with the UN?…and better yet why give him a platform at Grace?…This is so serious because if true, where is the Biblical Discernment?…I am well aware of all the points you have made and agree with them. No one else here seems to care about this except PILGRIM. You guys all neglect what Cindy has said. These things are TRUTH, Biblical or not. They are all a matter of public record. Doesn’t this bother you at all?
Pilgrim,
There are many educated Christians that love God’s Word and His truth and are fully aware of current events and how they tie into bible prophecy…they just may not be in the limelight and are not as prominent as many of our popular ecumenical leaders that just about everyone follows, but they are out there especially on the internet, you just have to search for them.
It’s so shocking to me that when you try to expose any smokescreen or something that is not a biblical command or that we don’t have permission from God to do, so many call you divisive or “unloving”. You know the masses accused Jesus of sedition and all He did was bear witness to the truth, yet sometimes the truth is hard to take, obviously.
You know when Dobson praised John Paul II after he died, I was compelled to send them an email that clearly he was in the wrong and I am SURE many other discerning Christians sent them emails, letters, phone calls, etc. as well, a gal there emailed me back to say that “doctrine is not the issue at least from our perspective”. I am glad she said “at least from our perspective”, because obviously that is not my perspective. Doctrine IS the heart of the issue, everything that our faith is built upon IS our doctrine. Doctrine is used repeatedly throughout scripture and much emphasis is placed upon it…..how then will we be able to discern what is right and what is wrong. Anyway it would not suprise me if Mohler is involved with the UN because of his attachment to FOTF ministry. The UN is always appeasing those muslims and those muslims proclaim “death to Israel” so we don’t want to cause an uprising…after all they control all the oil fields that the nations around the world need.
There is a scripture in proverbs that says, “Open rebuked love is better than secret love”. And the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
I’d rather have someone tell me the truth then someone flatter me.
To answer your questions about Grace Church…..no I have never been to California. The furthest west I’ve been is Utah at Arches National Park. I have never met anyone at JM’s church or rather the church he pastors.
Johnson Butler, thanks for your comments. Yes isn’t the freedom of information act wonderful. Unfortunately most people don’t use it.
Pilgrim
Grace becoming purpose driven…please stop with the jokes and the ridiculous claims…that, I am sorry, is an idiotic statement and you really need to know that your claims are unfounded and need to be backed by evidence of this, just cause it is big doesn’t mean that it is wrong…where do you come up with this stuff?
Pilgrim.
You must feel like the voice in the wilderness? too bad your voice is a wolf’s howl. You are tiring with your false attacks…such as the purpose driven coming into Grace…
Seth McBee,
I’m not joking and even if I showed you the evidence you still would deny it.
To those still reading this thread:
My apologies for not following this conversation the past few days.
“Johnson Butler” and “The Pilgrim” are either the same person, or else two similar cranks tag-teaming in this masquerade. They have been answered in detail numerous times by Fred Butler at his blog. See, for example, this post and the series of posts that follow it. Alternatively, you can Google Fred’s blog, “Hip and Thigh,” for the words “Al Mohler” and “UN.”
Update: Fred Butler has kindly compiled links to all that material for us in a post currently at the top of his blog: “The Al Mohler is a U.N. agent people are back.” That will simplify the matter for everyone. (Thanks, Fred.)
Since Fred has repeatedly answered the claims of these gentlemen, I’m going to close this thread for further comments, and notify “The Pilgrim” and “Johnson Butler” (and any other future pseudonyms these guys might concoct) that if they want to debate Al Mohler’s role with the UN any further, they can take the discussion back to Fred Butler’s blog, where they will be answered (again!) by Fred, who has infinitely more patience for that kind of nonsense than I do.
The Pulpit blog forum is not the place for it, though.
Note: Since the last couple of posts from “The Pilgrim” were unsubstantiated and ungodly acusations against an entire body of elders (in defiance of 1 Timothy 5:19), I took the liberty of deleting those comments. Further comments in the same vein from him (or anyone else) will also be unceremoniously and unapologetically deleted.
All attempts to drag this discussion into any other thread at the Pulpit blog will likewise be summarily deleted.
If “Johnson Butler” or “The Pilgrim” wanted a serious discussion of their conspiracy theories (as opposed to merely using old threads here at “Pulpit” to troll for fresh people to propagandize), they could always start their own blog. Since Fred Butler has already systematically dismantled all their claims, I’m not inclined to let them set up a soapbox to continue making those claims here.
End of discussion.
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