28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”– (Mark 3:28-29)

Ephesians 5:3-20
3 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. 8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit* is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret. 13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light. 14 Therefore He says: “Awake, you who sleep, Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light.” 15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, 16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, 20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,

Colossians 3:5-7
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

These are verses I’ve found that seem unpardonable if you continue in doing them. I believe the Bible is saying that if you do these things, your faith is not geniune.

Even the thief on the cross next to Jesus (who Jesus promised would be in paradise with Him)had to go through the process of becoming discouraged with worldly living before he could recognize and acknowledge God’s spiritual salvation. He had developed a genuine thirst and perspective which allowed him to see Jesus for Who He was.

Thank you for your patient response. Rather than prolonging the discussion, I think I will simply conclude by summarizing what I believe to be a potent argument in favor of “lordship salvation” from the Gospel of John:

1. All who believe in Jesus Christ are children of God (John 1:12).
2. All who are children of God love Jesus Christ (John 8:42).
3. All who love Jesus Christ obey Jesus Christ (John 14:15).
4. Therefore, all who believe in Jesus Christ also obey Jesus Christ.

Thanks again, Nathan, for an excellent article.

What I’m saying, is that Jesus and the NT writers are often speaking to, or at least of, all mankind when they teach of the effects of sin and the benefits of following God’s revealed will.

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.

And in John 8 verse 12 the Lord says, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.” This was said to his adversaries “the Scribes and the Pharisees” but it is a universal truth. When Cornelius was praying and fasting prior to his conversion he was not walking in darkness.

The teaching on rewards was not only taught to Christ’s disciples but to the crowds as well. As a person follows Christ and does the revealed will of God that person puts His faith in Christ. And as he continues to do the will of God, now empowered by God Himself, he lays up rewards for himself.

Christ is not, in this chapter, looking at a group of unbelievers and calling them his sons! He is saying IF you were ethically in tune with the Father and ethically in tune with discipleship truths, you would love me. Their being regenerate or unregenerate is irrelevant to that main point.

Hope that helps. Your question shows that I apparently wasn’t being clear in my explanations because you were misunderstanding what I was saying.

God bless.

Jodie

To clarify my question: Is there any verse in the NT which refers to unbelievers as children of God because they have begun to apply God’s Word to their lives and reproduce the ethical qualities of their Father (to borrow some of your wording from above)? Acts 17:28-29 does not fall into this category since it speaks of all people being the “offspring of God” in the sense that we have all been created by Him.

The consistent teaching of the NT is that one becomes a child of God when he believes in Christ and is converted (John 1:12). I could offer dozens of verses which teach this. I am just wondering if there is a single verse which would provide some kind of precedent for your interpretation of John 8:42. The lack of a precedent, along with the contextual argument that Nathan has made above, is making the Free Grace view of John 8:42 a big pill to swallow.

Regarding your puzzling comment that I hate to hear about Cornelius, you obviously haven’t seen me in my “Cornelius is My Homeboy” T-shirt.

Blessings.

You asked if I could “point to other verses in the NT which you believe teach that an unbeliever can be considered a child of God?” technically I would mention Acts 17:29, but your question suggests how your gold-plating of the redeemed leaves you seeing nothing but that one issue of regenerate v unregenerate people.

Anyone who considers that the may subject of chapter 8 is “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” Will see that it is discipleship that is the core of His discussion throughout.

But Matt, anyone who is attracted to Christ and begins to follow Him is going to be convicted of sin, righteousness and judgment and drawn by the Father to the truth of the Gospel. Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” Jn 6:29 The new “follower” of Christ who is too proud for this message, which is the will of the Father, becomes a fake follower of Jesus, or a follower who won’t follow, and the end result is Matthew 7:16-23:

15″Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. 21″Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?‘ 23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Notice that these are front-row Christians who are not lacking in works.

But the alternative is that a person who begins to follow Christ and is led by God to do the will of the Father and believe in Christ, (For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” Jn 6:40) is like the reality of Cornelius, who you hate hearing about, but who’s prayers were recognized by God prior to his becoming born again. He was following the light that God shed on Him was led by God to Christ.

Acts 10:4

The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. 5Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter.

Again, the very fact that you have, or really Nate has, used verse after verse of equating love with obedience and discipleship reveals that there are no verses insistng that possessing eternal life, or possessing justification, can be equated similarily with loving Christ. There is a need for the justified to love Christ, but that love is not an inevitable result.

God bless you and your readers.

I appreciate you going to the trouble of listing the scholars. What I was curious about is not so much their conclusions of the passage but their comments or specific thinking on the antecedent issue. For instance in English my understanding is it is part of effective writing/good communication rather than a formal rule of grammar.

In general I think you’re building a significant edifice on something a little too ambiguous, ambiguous enough at least for Bruce to demur.

The basic situation seems to undercut your treatment. The Lord is speaking to a hostile group, or at least one in which there are hostile, murderous members present and vocal.

My time is short, but essentially it’s hard to visualize this group of “the many” who believed within the group suddenly becoming the sole people verbally responding to the Lord and the only people of the group He is speaking to. It seems to assume that the Lord’s insight about their belief, based on his omniscience, was shared by this group. An odd situation made even odder by John not explaining the situation in his narration.

Only those who love Jesus are His disciples. Explicitly biblical. But using this type of passage to go beyond that to “prove” the whole puritan model seems to suggest some overall weakness.

Jodie