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	<title>Comments on: An Orthodox Generosity</title>
	<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2006/08/19/an-orthodox-generosity/</link>
	<description>A Ministry of Shepherds' Fellowship</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:59:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Cliff McManis</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2006/08/19/an-orthodox-generosity/#comment-2153</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Nov 2006 06:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2006/08/19/an-orthodox-generosity/#comment-2153</guid>
					<description>Nathan-

You were too generous in your review--but I know you--you're just a real nice guy. It would have been more accurate to call the book: "A Dangerous Heterodoxy." Consider some of the author's outlandish comments: Is there "any way to follow Jesus without becoming a Christian?...If you need permission, YES, you can follow Jesus without identifying yourself as a Christian" (p. 20); "as in most of my other books...I have gone out of my way to be...unclear" (p.27--he accomplished his goal!); "in spite of all appearances, underlying all things is--peace, salvation, gloria, that nothing and no one is lost" (p.202);  "Christian leaders" are required "to find new content, new ideas, new truth, new meaning" (p. 215); "doctrinal distinctives are a lot like cigarettes" (p. 217); "Calvin's descendants...seem to believe they have been granted an exemption from 1 Corinthians 13" (p. 221); "I was deeply moved by...Mary's image....by venerating Mary...we come to more fully know who we are" (pp. 249, 257); "I'd like to add six things...about Catholic Christianity that have enriched and continue to enrich my life in Christ:....(5) Catholics know how to party (p. 257); "when Scripture talks about itself, it doesn't use...words like authority, inerrancy, infallibility, revelation, objective, absolute, and literal...extrabiblical words...words foreign to the Bible's vocabulary" (pp. 182-83); "Also by the way, 'the Word of God' is never used in the Bible to refer to the Bible" (p. 181); "I don't believe making disciples must equal making adherents to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many...circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu or Jewish contexts" (p. 293); "I don't hope all Buddhists will become...Christians, I do hope all who feel so called will become Buddhist followers of Jesus...I hope all who feel so called will become Jewish or Hindu followers of Jesus...I hope that Jesus will save Buddhism, Islam and every other religion" (p. 297) 

There's more, but I can't go on. Keep up the good work Nathan!

blessings in Christ

Cliff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan-</p>
<p>You were too generous in your review&#8211;but I know you&#8211;you&#8217;re just a real nice guy. It would have been more accurate to call the book: &#8220;A Dangerous Heterodoxy.&#8221; Consider some of the author&#8217;s outlandish comments: Is there &#8220;any way to follow Jesus without becoming a Christian?&#8230;If you need permission, YES, you can follow Jesus without identifying yourself as a Christian&#8221; (p. 20); &#8220;as in most of my other books&#8230;I have gone out of my way to be&#8230;unclear&#8221; (p.27&#8211;he accomplished his goal!); &#8220;in spite of all appearances, underlying all things is&#8211;peace, salvation, gloria, that nothing and no one is lost&#8221; (p.202);  &#8220;Christian leaders&#8221; are required &#8220;to find new content, new ideas, new truth, new meaning&#8221; (p. 215); &#8220;doctrinal distinctives are a lot like cigarettes&#8221; (p. 217); &#8220;Calvin&#8217;s descendants&#8230;seem to believe they have been granted an exemption from 1 Corinthians 13&#8243; (p. 221); &#8220;I was deeply moved by&#8230;Mary&#8217;s image&#8230;.by venerating Mary&#8230;we come to more fully know who we are&#8221; (pp. 249, 257); &#8220;I&#8217;d like to add six things&#8230;about Catholic Christianity that have enriched and continue to enrich my life in Christ:&#8230;.(5) Catholics know how to party (p. 257); &#8220;when Scripture talks about itself, it doesn&#8217;t use&#8230;words like authority, inerrancy, infallibility, revelation, objective, absolute, and literal&#8230;extrabiblical words&#8230;words foreign to the Bible&#8217;s vocabulary&#8221; (pp. 182-83); &#8220;Also by the way, &#8216;the Word of God&#8217; is never used in the Bible to refer to the Bible&#8221; (p. 181); &#8220;I don&#8217;t believe making disciples must equal making adherents to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many&#8230;circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu or Jewish contexts&#8221; (p. 293); &#8220;I don&#8217;t hope all Buddhists will become&#8230;Christians, I do hope all who feel so called will become Buddhist followers of Jesus&#8230;I hope all who feel so called will become Jewish or Hindu followers of Jesus&#8230;I hope that Jesus will save Buddhism, Islam and every other religion&#8221; (p. 297) </p>
<p>There&#8217;s more, but I can&#8217;t go on. Keep up the good work Nathan!</p>
<p>blessings in Christ</p>
<p>Cliff
</p>
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		<title>by: Debbie Wimmers</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2006/08/19/an-orthodox-generosity/#comment-865</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2006/08/19/an-orthodox-generosity/#comment-865</guid>
					<description>Hi, I was wondering if you have seen the Criswell Journal. www.criswelljournal.com 
There are several articles on the emergant church in the current issue on line now.
Criswell Journal is printed by the Criswell College in Dallas Tx.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I was wondering if you have seen the Criswell Journal. <a href='http://www.criswelljournal.com' rel='nofollow'>www.criswelljournal.com</a><br />
There are several articles on the emergant church in the current issue on line now.<br />
Criswell Journal is printed by the Criswell College in Dallas Tx.
</p>
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		<title>by: Carl Forman</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2006/08/19/an-orthodox-generosity/#comment-353</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 22:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2006/08/19/an-orthodox-generosity/#comment-353</guid>
					<description>I am currently in the middle of reading this book, so I'm not at all qualified to comment...

But I think you were a bit harsh by making it appear that McLaren is promoting false doctrine on fundamental issues.

The verses you quoted were out of context. If you read those passages in context, you'll see that they were condemning false teachers who preach a gospel other than salvation through Jesus Christ the Risen Son of God.

Examples of this would be Gnostics, who didn't believe Christ had "come in the flesh" (which John warned of in his first letter). 

This wouldn't include Catholicism, for example, because they teach that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, and that He is the Savior.

(Of course that could open a whole can of worms here... but I'm just trying to say we shouldn't take verses out of context).

My 2 cents...
Carl</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am currently in the middle of reading this book, so I&#8217;m not at all qualified to comment&#8230;</p>
<p>But I think you were a bit harsh by making it appear that McLaren is promoting false doctrine on fundamental issues.</p>
<p>The verses you quoted were out of context. If you read those passages in context, you&#8217;ll see that they were condemning false teachers who preach a gospel other than salvation through Jesus Christ the Risen Son of God.</p>
<p>Examples of this would be Gnostics, who didn&#8217;t believe Christ had &#8220;come in the flesh&#8221; (which John warned of in his first letter). </p>
<p>This wouldn&#8217;t include Catholicism, for example, because they teach that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, and that He is the Savior.</p>
<p>(Of course that could open a whole can of worms here&#8230; but I&#8217;m just trying to say we shouldn&#8217;t take verses out of context).</p>
<p>My 2 cents&#8230;<br />
Carl
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		<title>by: Harry Peterson</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2006/08/19/an-orthodox-generosity/#comment-210</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2006/08/19/an-orthodox-generosity/#comment-210</guid>
					<description>Get ready. the "emergent/emerging thing is going to cause a split within my own denomination. thank you for hitting it right on the head.
If you really want to be broken in spirt, read chapter 4 (party in the living room, torture in the basement) of Brians latest book." The Last Word and the Word After That: A Tale of Faith, Doubt, and a New Kind of Christianity" it is unbelaivable!(or is it)
May God help us ho;d fast to His Truth.
(you can read the exerpt at CBD.com)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Get ready. the &#8220;emergent/emerging thing is going to cause a split within my own denomination. thank you for hitting it right on the head.<br />
If you really want to be broken in spirt, read chapter 4 (party in the living room, torture in the basement) of Brians latest book.&#8221; The Last Word and the Word After That: A Tale of Faith, Doubt, and a New Kind of Christianity&#8221; it is unbelaivable!(or is it)<br />
May God help us ho;d fast to His Truth.<br />
(you can read the exerpt at CBD.com)
</p>
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		<title>by: Peter Spiers</title>
		<link>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2006/08/19/an-orthodox-generosity/#comment-204</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.sfpulpit.com/2006/08/19/an-orthodox-generosity/#comment-204</guid>
					<description>Nathan,

Thank you for a gracious, and yet accurate response to this movement. I'm always grieved to hear professed believers, particularly pastors/teachers espousing this approach to biblical truth. The Authur of Scripture makes it so clear across His book that we are to "contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints"(Jude 1:3)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan,</p>
<p>Thank you for a gracious, and yet accurate response to this movement. I&#8217;m always grieved to hear professed believers, particularly pastors/teachers espousing this approach to biblical truth. The Authur of Scripture makes it so clear across His book that we are to &#8220;contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints&#8221;(Jude 1:3)
</p>
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